Joe Davis – Announcer [00:00:00]:

The following content is not suitable for children faking orgasms.

George Faller [00:00:04]:

What the heck is that about? Laurie? I didn’t know that was such a thing. I mean, I heard of women faking orgasms, but men do it, too.

Laurie Watson [00:00:12]:

Men do it, too. Yeah. You’d think it’d be a little bit hard for a man to do it right? Because, well, you could tell.

George Faller [00:00:20]:

But should be some evidence somewhere.

Laurie Watson [00:00:23]:

There should be some evidence somewhere. Okay, but we’ve got a question from a listener from our mail bag, so we’re going to talk about it. Welcome to foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller [00:00:37]:

And I’m George Faller, a couple’s therapist.

Laurie Watson [00:00:40]:

We are here to talk about sex.

George Faller [00:00:42]:

Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind, and their hearts, and.

Laurie Watson [00:00:50]:

We have a little bit of fun doing it. Right.

George Faller [00:00:52]:

G, listen and let’s change some relationships.

Laurie Watson [00:00:56]:

Okay? So g. I’ve got a question. I’m going to disguise her name, but she says, I think my husband’s been faking orgasms. I feel like most people believe this would only happen with women, but I would love to have it normalized. We’ve done EFT therapy. Yay. And I’ve learned about performance anxiety and struggles with delayed orgasm. But in therapy, we agreed the goal during sex was not about orgasm.

Laurie Watson [00:01:22]:

We’ve gotten to a wonderful place sexually, but he still puts pressure on himself again, and now he’s faking orgasm. I gently asked him if he was feeling pressure creeping up again and if there was anything I could do to support him. His response? He recognizes his need to work on letting go. I get the feeling that faking the orgasm is contributing to the performance anxiety. Yeah. As the emotional pursuer in the relationship, I accept that it’s up to me to bring this up. How can I do that without adding to the anxiety he’s already feeling?

George Faller [00:01:58]:

Yeah.

Laurie Watson [00:01:59]:

Well, first of all, I love all her questions. Right. She’s, like, super concerned here. She wants to bring it up. Right?

George Faller [00:02:06]:

Yeah. There’s a lot of misperceptions out there, including my own. That’s why I’m doing this podcast. Like men don’t fake it. I mean, we make these general assumptions that are out there in pop culture that are just the way people just think without really fully thinking things through. Right. So whenever we’re laughing or trying to have fun, it’s never at the expense of people taking risks that are reaching out.

Laurie Watson [00:02:28]:

Right.

George Faller [00:02:28]:

So I just want to make sure I’ll let people know, because it never feels good when we’re struggling and that people are willing to talk about that. It’s how we get help, how we can repair that. So we always applaud that risk taking. And we also need to bring up topics that a lot of people, including me, have a lot of misperceptions about. So thank you for continuing to educate us.

Laurie Watson [00:02:52]:

Yeah, and thank you so much for writing in about this. Again, I think it is unusual and that’s kind of our laughter, but it does happen. And I think particularly, I think her saying it started with his delayed ejaculation. Right. If you can’t climax while you’re having intercourse and your partner wants you to, that could put a lot of pressure on you.

George Faller [00:03:16]:

Sure.

Laurie Watson [00:03:17]:

And any kind of anxiety, any kind of pressure is going to make climaxing even harder. So as soon as you start thinking about, I’m not going to come, you’re not going to come.

George Faller [00:03:28]:

Exactly. And then faking it, like lying or anything else is a good way of avoiding something bad, stopping that feeling. It’s a step away. It actually, in a moment, provides safety. Right. I don’t have to feel that pressure. I get away from feeling so bad you’re happy with me. I can just let this thing go.

George Faller [00:03:52]:

It’s a short term benefit, I guess, is what I’m saying. Like any lie faking is, but it has an impact, and not only an impact on the person who might find out, but an impact on the person who’s using that strategy, which is, I think, what we need to try to figure out how to talk about.

Laurie Watson [00:04:10]:

Right. So the impact on the other is they begin to maybe not trust that this is good. Right. An impact on ourself, if we’re the one who is using the strategy of faking, is, well, first of all, we’re denied pleasure. I mean, just basically we’re denied pleasure. Secondly, I think you would kind of feel somehow or another bad about yourself because you know, you’re not being straight with your partner. And so that doesn’t feel good. It’s like there’s something between me and my partner, I’m afraid.

Laurie Watson [00:04:45]:

I imagine in my head they’re going to be critical if they know I’m not coming. And I mean, this whole thing kind of builds up a scenario of a break of connection between me and my partner. It’s also faking it.

George Faller [00:04:56]:

The person who faking it gets denied the opportunity for help with that struggle. I mean, they are struggling in that moment. There’s a fear that something they’re not going to come, they’re going to let that partner down. They’re not getting any help with that fear. And when you don’t get any help with that fear, it just grows inside of us. So immediacy of the moment, all right, I get away from that fear. I can fake it. But that fear just continues to grow and the pressure continues to increase.

George Faller [00:05:23]:

So, yes, the impact is you don’t get help. You betray your partner, you feel bad about yourself. It’s just on lots of levels, it hurts, and yet people continue to do it, which shows the power of the immediacy. Right. That something in that moment says, at least I’m going to make my partner feel good.

Laurie Watson [00:05:45]:

I don’t know. I feel like betray my partner might be a little strong. Like I know so many women who fake orgasms. It’s like the intent is to please the partner, but when I mean, it.

George Faller [00:05:59]:

Finds out that they’re lying, that feels like a betrayal. They’re not trying to portray by doing it, but it lands that way.

Laurie Watson [00:06:06]:

Okay, I hear you. Those words feel I just want you to know they feel really strong to be lying and betrayal? Woofta. Like whoo? I don’t know. I guess I can hear it from the other side. Especially if it’s been a long pattern and then you feel bad, like, wow, this whole time you weren’t climaxing and you never told me.

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George Faller [00:07:49]:

What’s our mission? Are we trying to understand what it feels like for the person? The impact?

Laurie Watson [00:07:55]:

No, I just want to explore it. It’s a different perspective, I guess. I’ve never thought about it as betrayal in line. I guess it is in some ways. Or it’s lying. It’s a subtle form of lying, but.

George Faller [00:08:09]:

I don’t think any of it’s in the intent. But I put myself in that position that says, all right, my partner is pretending to have an orgasm. Why do they need to do that and not talk to me about that? Like you said, it creates mistrust. So mistrust is our partner is not with us. Right. They’re not being forthright. So that let down is what I’m calling the betrayal and whatever words we want to.

Laurie Watson [00:08:43]:

Yeah, and it’s a let down in a really intimate place. Yeah, I hear that. So she wants to know how she can say it to him. One I don’t know if we want to figure that out. And how is she gentle enough so that she doesn’t increase the anxiety? And then I kind of want to offer some things of what they might do about it if they had open communication. So I’ve been on a really fun weekend this bit while we’re recording. And I’ve been with my girlfriends, and all we’ve been doing is talking about sex and talking and talking and talking.

George Faller [00:09:29]:

And taking a microphone into those topics.

Laurie Watson [00:09:32]:

Oh, my gosh, George, you would like.

George Faller [00:09:34]:

Them on a podcast. You could get rid of me for a week and let’s see what the ladies got to say. Be more interested.

Laurie Watson [00:09:40]:

Yeah, like just a fly on the wall. I thought about you. I thought George would love to be hearing this conversation. But anyway, I do have some solutions.

George Faller [00:09:48]:

What do you think they would be saying about this topic?

Laurie Watson [00:09:51]:

Yeah, so we actually did talk about this, and they had came up with lovely things to do. I mean, first one of them said, why don’t you get out of bed and just say, hey, it’s okay if you don’t climax. Why don’t we get out of bed and I’ll masturbate you in the mirror so you can see me do this?

George Faller [00:10:08]:

So she could see him. Ejaculate. I want proof. I need the mirror to see it. Hopefully he hits the mirror and I could actually see it. I think that’s what she was thinking.

Laurie Watson [00:10:23]:

Maybe, but also she was thinking, like, combining that visual eroticism with physical stimulation would be kind of the thing that would push him over the edge or doing it in the shower. She also suggested doing it in the shower. She would masturbate him in the shower. And another girlfriend said, you know what I would do is I would just give him a golden ticket and just say to him, you know what? It wasn’t your moment, but tonight, at any time, if you feel desire, if you feel horny, any point in the night, just wake me up and we’ll go again. Like just giving him permission. And also they said just knowing that, hey, it’s okay if you don’t come inside me. It’s no big deal. Let’s just do something else.

Laurie Watson [00:11:10]:

Or I’ll watch you masturbate, or I’ll masturbate you, and we’ll try that way. It was just no pressure. You don’t have to come inside me. And I thought those were great suggestions.

George Faller [00:11:23]:

A lot of wisdom in that. I mean, the culprit is the pressure. So finding ways to reduce the pressure is critical. So I like the creativity, and I also think there’s something really loving about the intent in faking it, right. That you just want to please your partner. You want your partner to have a good experience. You don’t want to have them worry about you or stress out. You don’t want to introduce the negativity.

George Faller [00:11:48]:

So you know what? All right, tonight’s not my night. Whatever. I just fake it. We still got feeling and connected. I think to connect with that, first you have to see that part of it, that this person is protecting themselves, certainly, but there’s a big part of it that’s trying to protect you, too. So can you hold on to that as you try to initiate the conversation.

Laurie Watson [00:12:07]:

Right. I totally go with that one. It’s like you are trying to make it good for your partner, but I think these other ways might be ways that you can climax and your partner can feel really connected to you because they’re still involved. And I mean, it’s. Good.

George Faller [00:12:28]:

Well, let’s come back and talk about how she can bring it up.

Laurie Watson [00:12:34]:

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George Faller [00:15:04]:

All right, so it’s one thing to have a couple of ideas. It’s another, how do you start the conversation? Right. Which is probably the hardest part, I think, always helping couples try to connect first before they give advice. They’re trying to connect with the pressure, trying to connect with the good intent, trying to protect her partner from the message that she’s betraying, she feels betrayed or she’s hurt. Right. When we lead with the hurt or we lead with, how can you do this? And you should be doing this instead. It usually elicits, defensiveness, so I would think it would start with something. Hey, babe, I appreciate you’re always worried about me and concerned about my experience, and you want to protect me.

George Faller [00:15:46]:

You want to protect yourself. And I love that. I love that about you. And I also sometimes I have concerns about are you having an orgasm? Are you not? You might have those same concerns about me. I’m curious, how do we talk about that with each other without making the other person get defensive? Because we should be able to talk to each other about that. And to me, the problem isn’t that we do it. It’s that if we can’t talk about it, I think that’s the missed opportunity. That’s what I’m trying to help people see in the conversation.

George Faller [00:16:24]:

It’s like if you could put some on a table, we’re fine. It can lead to us feeling closer together. It’s if we never talk about it, that’s where the real disconnect happens.

Laurie Watson [00:16:35]:

Okay, I want to say something about what you just said because I think this is such a smart technique. You do this a lot. I’ve seen you do this in therapy, and you talk about it on the podcast. But you start with a very broad sentence, very broad look. It’s like you’re not going in for the kill with the very thing you want to talk about. You open up with something that is positive about the relationship, sort of seeding the fact that we’re connected, and then you’re bringing it around to what you want to talk about. But it opens broadly, and I think as a pursuer, this is a big mistake that I can make, is oftentimes I want to get to the point, so I’ll open with the point like, hey, let me say it wrong. I might have said, I noticed when I got up there was no come inside me, and so I’m just wondering if you came or not.

Laurie Watson [00:17:29]:

But that would be, like, way too targeted. Right? Because suddenly there’s no softening. There’s no sense of the understanding why this might happen from another perspective.

George Faller [00:17:43]:

I’m a big fan of the compliment sandwich. You start off with a compliment connecting, you make your point, and you try to end with a compliment. And not really as a technique to get heard, but I just think it puts me in a better position to really see the bigger picture and the truth. Like, I do want to protect my partner. I do believe if my partner is doing something, they have their good reasons, and I actually just want to explore that and have a conversation. And if I come out of the gate directly, challenging, then I’m probably going to elicit defensiveness. I want to have this conversation with two green brains. Right? And when couples try to have this conversation with those defensive yellow brains, really, nothing good happens.

Laurie Watson [00:18:24]:

Exactly. I wanted to show the wrong way, because we can do that. I can do that.

George Faller [00:18:32]:

We all do that.

Laurie Watson [00:18:34]:

We all do that.

George Faller [00:18:35]:

But if you were the person let’s just try to brainstorm on maybe what you would need to hear and then.

Laurie Watson [00:18:41]:

We’Ll role play it. So I figure if I were the one faking man or a woman, if you’re faking, you want your intent honored and you don’t want to be ashamed. You’re already ashamed. That’s why you’re faking it. You’re ashamed you’re not climaxing. So the last thing you need right now is for your partner to shame you and sort of calling attention to it right there is like getting stripped naked. So I think, gosh, what I would need would be a lot of tenderness, a lot of appreciation for anything that I’ve given sexually. Maybe just the other good things about me sexually.

Laurie Watson [00:19:28]:

That I’m a giving partner, that I’m up for sex, that I have desire, that I’m fun in the experience, anything that could that compliment sandwich that could make me feel relaxed.

George Faller [00:19:40]:

It’s just amazing the gender piece of this, that women do it all the time and we have language around maybe how to talk about that. The idea of helping a man talk about it is such a foreign concept. Just because we don’t really talk about that. There’s so much secrecy and hiding around it that even if a man does it, a woman is probably not going to talk about him doing it. So it just doesn’t seem to get out. Which is maybe why my brain is like I guess I would need help taking the pressure off. Which was all these creative ideas, like being told it is okay to not have an orgasm. It’s not happening.

George Faller [00:20:29]:

You can stop. And we’re still trying to connect. And everything else being even in the note he says I need to let go because he can feel the pressure and he can’t let go. So I guess getting some reminder that it’s okay not to come wouldn’t probably take out some of that pressure.

Laurie Watson [00:20:48]:

Yeah. So if she were to say to begin it by saying it’s okay, I just want you to know you’re a great sexual partner. I’m so attracted to you. I love our time together. I love what we’re doing in bed. I love you inside.

George Faller [00:21:04]:

Are we role playing this?

Laurie Watson [00:21:05]:

Not maybe. Are we?

George Faller [00:21:07]:

Let’s do it, shall we? Okay, let’s see if we can do it. I’m putting myself in a role of a man who just faked an orgasm. So this is new territory for me.

Laurie Watson [00:21:19]:

It would be new territory for me, too. Just for the record, not all women fake. It never faked. It too selfish to fake. Let’s see you’re Joey. I’m going to call you Joey. And you know, Joey, I just want you to know last night was so great. I love being with you and I always love being with it’s.

Laurie Watson [00:21:45]:

It’s so good. And I don’t know, just your willingness to please me and all that makes it so good for me. And I appreciate how giving you are and I was just thinking about it. I know sometimes there’s a night that I don’t come, and sometimes I imagine there’s times, and I know you’ve struggled in the past that you don’t come. And I don’t. I’m wondering if we can find a way to just that can be okay. And if we don’t come, maybe we switch it up, or maybe we do it in the morning, or maybe we take it to the showers or how are you feeling about our experience last night?

George Faller [00:22:32]:

Moment of truth. I feel me wanting to lie.

Laurie Watson [00:22:36]:

Yeah.

George Faller [00:22:37]:

Say I just came. Right. Which is gang, because if I can do that, I can just avoid having to touch this part of myself. I really don’t want to talk about it. I’m not sure. Last night, it was good.

Laurie Watson [00:22:56]:

Yeah, it was good. It was really good. And I think us, everything we did was good. All of it to me was pleasurable. Just being with you is good. And I’m wondering just if you feel yourself not going to make it to orgasm, I’m wondering how we could talk about that. And maybe you need something else. Maybe you need different kinds of stimulation or a little break or anything like that.

Laurie Watson [00:23:32]:

I guess in general. Do you know what you need?

George Faller [00:23:40]:

I guess you’re asking me did I have an orgasm?

Laurie Watson [00:23:44]:

Yeah.

George Faller [00:23:47]:

I mean, almost always do have an orgasm, but I guess there are times where I don’t want to lose my erection and I don’t feel the orgasm coming, and I don’t want to really feel what that’s like, to lose my erection and kind of feel bad. Then I have to worry about it next time. So sometimes it is like, it’s good enough. We’re having fun. You’ve had an orgasm. And I’m like, you know what? Let’s just end this, and I just have an orgasm. I pretend to have an orgasm.

Laurie Watson [00:24:24]:

Yeah. So sometimes you feel like but I.

George Faller [00:24:28]:

Did do that last night.

Laurie Watson [00:24:30]:

Honey, first of all, thanks for telling me that. I get it. We were having fun, and maybe it just wasn’t your night, and you just felt like you didn’t want to lose an erection, which I know is hard for you to if that happens, you don’t feel good about that, then I.

George Faller [00:24:53]:

Don’T want to have to talk about it.

Laurie Watson [00:24:55]:

Right. So just pretending to come is a way to end our evening. For me to feel like you did come, then I feel happy, and you want to make me happy.

George Faller [00:25:11]:

I even feel happy pretending to come. It’s kind of fun. It does kind of like we get to cuddle afterwards and for better outcome than just getting frustrated.

Laurie Watson [00:25:29]:

Yeah, I guess for me, I want you to have pleasure so much that I also want you to know that it would be okay to tell me it’s not happening for me right now. And it would be really okay for you to ask me for anything that would help. Like it’s okay if you come outside me and you want to just masturbate next to me and I’ll hold you, honey. Because I know sometimes you just get in your head and it’s not working. And maybe if you just do yourself right there it would work. And I would love that. Or I’ll help. I’ll do it too.

Laurie Watson [00:26:10]:

Or maybe we can figure out something that’s kind of sexy, that is an alternative that gets you there. Because I know sometimes when it’s hard to come inside me, it’s a little bit better for you outside me. That’s good with me. I really want you to have freedom to do what feels the best.

George Faller [00:26:32]:

I guess it does feel a little relieving as we’re talking about it. Like even the idea that it’s okay some of the times to not come. I mean, I’ve never thought that way. I always think if I don’t come, it’s a failure.

Laurie Watson [00:26:45]:

Think about the times that we’ve had quickies and I don’t come.

George Faller [00:26:51]:

All those years. But now I’m starting to get it. My body’s changing and I still can have fun even if I don’t have an orgasm with you. And I guess I don’t like how it feels too. Some of the time if I don’t talk about it or it feels like I’m just faking it, I’m kind of glad we’re talking about it.

Laurie Watson [00:27:15]:

I just want us to feel free to tell each other kind of what is really happening in our bodies. That would make me also feel close to you. I know it’s risky and I know it’s vulnerable and I know you grew up thinking men should always come and always be hard and I think there’s so much pressure on men. But that’s not how I feel about it.

George Faller [00:27:41]:

I’m feeling something right now. So what do you think?

Laurie Watson [00:27:47]:

Okay, Joey.

George Faller [00:27:48]:

All right. Joey’s waking up now.

Laurie Watson [00:27:50]:

Joey’s, listen, I hope come out of this.

George Faller [00:27:54]:

Yeah, I hope again. We’re just given a space to try to start a difficult conversation. Right. It’s awkward to want to talk about this, but what’s the alternative? To not talk about it means you can continue to hide these parts of yourself. When we hide parts of ourselves, the levels of engagement in the relationship go down. It’s a beautiful question and a thing that this wife is wanting and good job bringing it up.

Laurie Watson [00:28:21]:

Yeah. We hope that that helped you and thank you so much for writing in and we appreciate that. We know it’s vulnerable to just put it out there, but we hope this helps you. Okay. Thanks for listening.

George Faller [00:28:34]:

Keep it hot. And it’s okay not to orgasm.

Laurie Watson [00:28:37]:

I would love to invite you. This is women only, but we are having a retreat in Asheville on November 10 through the twelveTH and it’s going to be a slumber party and so we’re going to all stay together in the same cabin. It’s a beautiful space and we’re going to have meals brought in and made and we know who the chef is. And so it’s going to be wonderful. Maybe drink a little bit of wine if you’d like to. And we have kind of some talks and time to work together on your sexuality. So the whole goal of this women’s sexuality retreat, the slumber party, is to basically enhance and develop yourself, your erotic self inside. So we’re going to be talking about anatomy and physiology and sexual attachment.

Laurie Watson [00:29:25]:

We’re going to talk through blocks. What stops us? What are the breaks against our sexual expression? And then what are our gas pedals? What are our turn ons? How do we open up more sexually, like with enhanced sexual pleasure. And we’re going to talk about orgasms and roleplay and using joys and fantasies and some stuff. And each night we’re going to have a pajama party where we just relax and sit around and talk on the deck and hang out together. And then on Sunday morning, we’re going to set our focus and have concrete steps toward sexual engagement with our partners.

George Faller [00:30:00]:

Sounds pretty awesome. Laurie and all the men. Don’t worry about it. Maybe we’ll have like a Spartan camp out somewhere, have a couple beers and we’ll do our own version of that someday.

Laurie Watson [00:30:12]:

That would be great. So, love to invite you. I will post it on foreplaysextherapy.com under resources, and there will be the retreat, the scheduling events, and you can link and figure out if you can make it with us on November 10 through the twelveTH in Asheville. Okay, so tell us about your cutting edge training that you’re doing on success and vulnerability.

George Faller [00:30:36]:

Laurie we just keep pushing it. Coming up with a new module on the playbook of a pursuer, playbook of a witcher. Really practical, moment by moment moves of what a therapist can use. We’re so focused on what’s happening in session enough. There’s talk about theories and these global things I think most therapists are looking for, what do I do in this moment? Give me a tool, George. So that’s what we’re trying to do.

Laurie Watson [00:31:02]:

That’s awesome. I am so glad you guys are doing this work. I think it helps us be organized to see you do it. You do demos, you do explanations. Teaching. It really is interactive. And I think that so many trainings that we sit through don’t give us an opportunity for that. So what you’re doing is really important.

George Faller [00:31:21]:

No, we try to emphasize the teach it, show it, do it model of learning. You need to have some ideas. So we try to teach those and then we try to show what it looks like implementing those ideas. But most importantly, you now got to practice it. That’s how they become yours. And that’s what we want our listeners and watchers to do, is become their own moves.

Laurie Watson [00:31:40]:

Find George and his [email protected].

Joe Davis – Announcer [00:31:45]:

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