Laurie Watson [00:00:00]:

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Laurie Watson [00:00:31]:

George, I think that we talk about this a lot, but our listeners keep asking for it. And right now, we’re going to do A-Q-A from a listener who really needs some affirmation about his own sex drive and the frustration that he feels in his partnership.

George Faller [00:00:47]:

All right, let’s do it.

Laurie Watson [00:00:51]:

Welcome to foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller [00:00:55]:

And I’m George Faller, your couples therapist.

Laurie Watson [00:00:58]:

We are here to talk about sex.

George Faller [00:01:00]:

Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind and their hearts, and.

Laurie Watson [00:01:08]:

We have a little bit of fun doing it. Right.

George Faller [00:01:10]:

G listen and let’s change some relationships.

Laurie Watson [00:01:14]:

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Laurie Watson [00:02:08]:

Talk to your doctor and visit Botoxpronicmigraine.com or call 1804 Four Botox to learn more. You want to read it?

George Faller [00:02:16]:

You’re such a better reader than me.

Laurie Watson [00:02:17]:

Okay, I’ll read it.

George Faller [00:02:19]:

I like listening to your voice.

Laurie Watson [00:02:21]:

That’s sweet. Okay. My therapist recommended that I listen to you both. I find it all very transcendent and affirming. Thank you. Thank you so much. My partner, even though she was the one who was more sexually adventurous in our relationship at the beginning, 20 years ago, well after two kids, and especially after the birth of our son, which brought up all these issues of gender for her, well, now she sees sex as a threat. She’s conditioned me to think that as a man, all sex that I want is not romantic or is pornographic. That’s not true. But the thing is, sometimes I just want to fuck because it’s such a great release. But mostly I want to fuck my wife because I love her and I want to feel loved in return. And somehow she can’t see that. Oh, and then he says, I don’t want my marriage to dissolve, and least of all over sex. But I’m feeling quite lost and I probably get an email like this once a week. I had another one from a man recently who said due to some childbirth injuries, his wife too shut down and had told him that kind of her response to his initiation is, all you think about is sex. I can’t even think about that. And he says, we don’t have to do anything that would hurt you. How about something else? And she’s like, no, I’m not into that. And how about couples therapy? No, I don’t want to do that. Maybe after I get more settled. But it’s been years now that they’ve been in this same place. And I do think there are difficulties with childbirth, certainly to the body, and there are difficulties raising kids.

George Faller [00:03:59]:

Well, this is the age old God’s sense of humor. Men want to be fed and fucked and women want to feel safe and supportive. And we know that’s exaggerated, but there is definitely some truth in that, right? So this guy is speaking to that part of him like, can this part of me that wants to fuck not be pathologized as just this pornographic, like, lust that there’s wanting to fuck can be more than just that mechanical thing? And I think he puts good words to how a lot of men feel, that fucking is a way of connecting. It is a way of feeling really vulnerable, like knowing your partner wants you and you want your partner and you’re pleasing each other. It doesn’t get that better than moments like that. And I think just having our listeners find better words for I mean, if you feel just fucked and used, we can see how that doesn’t work so well. But the flip side of that is to be able to appreciate can you expand your definition of what fucking is like? For a lot of people, it is incredibly romantic. It is how they feel loved. And I just appreciate that this guy is highlighting that. And I think so many, especially men, feel this way but aren’t able to put it into words right. They just wind up hearing, this is all you want. This is all you want. They start to feel guilty and it’s hard to stand up for themselves and say, wait a second. What I want is healthy and beautiful and it’s more than you’re seeing it. I’m sorry you see it this way. I can try to help you with that. But I need you to see my truth more and see this part of me that’s really important. And I think a lot of people miss this.

Laurie Watson [00:05:43]:

And I do think for men many times, and I got to say, there’s women out there that just want to be fucked too and enjoy it and.

George Faller [00:05:52]:

Enjoy the men want comfort and support too. We all want all of that.

Laurie Watson [00:05:56]:

Yeah. We are talking about maybe a stereotypic way of the gender splitting on this, but I deal with a ton of women who are sexual pursuers and love sex and want it to be playful, want it to be wild. And I think for many women, especially, sex can be kind of mundane when it’s like, go upstairs, pull down the sheets, do it, get up, get cleaned up. There’s not a whole lot of energy in that.

George Faller [00:06:27]:

Those women aren’t described as you just want to fuck me. Really? Why is there that? Double standard. They have the same drive and desire that the men want, but our society looks at that and says, there’s a woman with a really healthy sex drive. She kind of wants it for herself. And that’s really beautiful and important, I guess what I’m seeing.

Laurie Watson [00:06:51]:

I don’t think our society says that about women. Really, George? I do not think there’s much affirmation for that. There is if you’re young and single, right. And beautiful, it’s like, wow, she’s really hot and she wants it all the time. It’s so cool. But no, not so much if you are not young and hot and single. I don’t think there’s a lot of affirmation about women still wanting it. So that’s another argument.

George Faller [00:07:15]:

We will address that guy, but just that argument between the couple. What I’m saying is that woman who wants to fuck, I don’t think a lot of men look at that and say, hey, you have a problem. You’re trying to use my body? Or like, there’s something about that that the guy will usually have a problem. What’s wrong with me? Why I don’t want to fuck? But I don’t think most men see wanting to fuck from a woman as something as negative as a lot of women say it.

Laurie Watson [00:07:46]:

I mean, certainly there are some really happy couples out there, right?

George Faller [00:07:50]:

Yes.

Laurie Watson [00:07:51]:

And oftentimes the woman expresses her drive directly and she does say Fuck me. And she does want it and she expresses that. And glad is the couple. That where the man receives that and it says, Hot dog, I got a hot one, and this is so great. And the woman who says, Hot dog, I got a hot one too, who wants me? And that’s the target. That’s the target, yeah. And I think this idea, though, about the fucking is sometimes the investment in pleasure, in kind of a raw experience about letting go. And maybe it isn’t always interpersonal and intimate and romantic. I mean, maybe sometimes it just is. I want to get down and do it. Let’s just do it. That can be very exciting and I appreciate that. As a male, he’s probably got pounding testosterone that urges him to do that. And it’s exciting. Yeah, I mean gosh, it’s exciting. This is the way he finds excitement in life. It’s like if you’re trudging away you got two kids like he says, you’re going to work every know. Yeah. It’s something to look forward.

George Faller [00:09:08]:

Think of Netflix. You want to get busy. It’s a great stress release too. So again, just trying to make some space to just tell this guy, I’m with you. I hear what you’re saying, that you want more comfortableness around wanting to fuck and not have to feel like there’s something wrong with you because you want that.

Laurie Watson [00:09:32]:

Yeah. And I do think there is also culturally a message that goes out to men that they are bad for feeling like this, that they are animals and that they’re only in tune with the animal part of them and somehow or another they’re bad. And I’m here to say that is not true. This is a great healthy part, this drive that you have to fuck or to have sex. We need it, the partnership needs it in order to keep sex alive. I mean, I really think without that drive, many, many couples would suffer and struggle. And this is what is beautiful during those child rearing years. How do you harness this in a way that makes it good for both people?

George Faller [00:10:18]:

Exactly. And I’m sure we’re going to get feedback from our listeners with this. We’re leaning into this side of it. The flip side is there’s nothing like somebody who wants to fuck you all the time and you’re not in a mood where it doesn’t feel like it’s about closeness or connection. So again, we spend lots of time talking about pressure to have sex. Certainly we can talk about that. So let’s shift to that. What happens during childbirth that causes in this example, women who are really adventurous and want to fuck and are engaged. All of a sudden that starts to shut down.

Laurie Watson [00:10:56]:

Yeah. I really think part of it is this being a mom, being maternal, essentially being Mary, right? The virgin mother who is not concerned with carnal things. She’s got to give everything to her children, be available. And she has a problem splitting off this part that allows herself to be selfish enough to want pleasure still, to want to party, to want to fuck. It’s like that’s who I was when I was young. Now I’m mature, I got to be a giver. I think when we want to fuck, we are quite aware of the part that wants to take. And a healthy sex life is give and take.

George Faller [00:11:41]:

That resonates. You have to sacrifice and new moms have to be the hardest job in the world. You basically go on hold your own personal needs and you got to put someone else’s needs before your own. Yes, but then it seems that there is that shift that sex becomes something I got to do for my partner instead of wanting it for me. And that shift is if it’s temporary, it’s fine, but if it becomes chronic and habitual, it’s going to be a big problem.

Laurie Watson [00:12:10]:

Yeah. And I certainly see all the many things. I think it’s a complex issue. One of them is my body changed. I don’t think I’m as hot. Maybe I don’t get that affirmation from my partner that I’m as hot. Although I got to say, I have seen one couple, and I think she’s smoking, but she doesn’t think she’s as smoking. And he is so affirming. He’s like, look at I look at your body. I want you. I want to see you naked. I want to touch you naked. I want to touch everything. I mean, he’s just so affirming, and it’s like he’s going to get out of that. It’s going to pay him dividends because she’s going to respond. I think women do respond really well to that kind of affirmation, that she is attractive. And I think there’s also kind of the sense of tired, busy. It takes so much energy. If I were a man who had a wife with two kids, I would send her away once a month to a hotel to sleep all night long. I would just like that’s in the budget. Go to the Hilton and spend the night and take the whole day for yourself. I got the kids on Saturday, once a month.

George Faller [00:13:26]:

We can have sex when you come back. Right.

Laurie Watson [00:13:29]:

I don’t know that I would say this kind of investment is long term. Yeah. I would hope she would come home able to have sex or she would call him up and want him to come over in the afternoon.

George Faller [00:13:43]:

I think, Laurie, a lot of us men need to know a little bit about what changes. I mean, I think we can get some of the emotional changes, right? The stress and the taking care of kids. What happens to the body when you give birth and things change and things are cut? What might be some of the carryover of these physical changes that men might not know about?

Laurie Watson [00:14:08]:

Okay. So certainly immediately after birth, women are pretty delicate because of two issues. If it was a vaginal birth, their vagina is a bit tore up. And also there’s a hormonal change. They have prolactin, which means the hormone that has them make milk. Even if they’re not nursing, they still have that hormone in their body. It depresses libido, and it caused her vagina and her vulva to become dry. So you got two strikes against you, just physiological, and you’re also riding the waves of hormones as your body is coming back into itself. So it’s not a good stew, if you will, to feel horny. So that’s one part. But what happens? I would also say most women this is really crazy. And a lot of people I’ve talked to don’t know this, but if you have a vaginal birth, the way the baby comes out, even if you’re not cut or it has nothing to do with the episiotomy, but the baby’s head is so big that there’s something called a stretch wound. So it kind of stretches the nerves in your vagina. And many times the left side of their clitoris is not as sensitive as it used to be. So it’s a really common wound. And so she literally may have less sensitivity or she may need touch to be changed on her clitoris to kind of assist and say, hey, this feels a little bit better on this side. Now, I don’t know why, but it’s true. So, I mean, I think so much talking needs to happen, and there literally are physiological changes that go on.

George Faller [00:15:45]:

All right, well, let’s pick up what we can do to help this guy when he come back.

Laurie Watson [00:15:54]:

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George Faller [00:16:19]:

Fast and good. That’s what I like.

Laurie Watson [00:16:22]:

I think what’s cool about them is they are flavor packed meals, and you can kind of choose your type of meal. So keto, calorie, smart, vegan, veggie, protein, plus whatever diet or nutritional plan you’re following, factor has got it.

George Faller [00:16:38]:

Meat and potatoes. They’re there.

Laurie Watson [00:16:39]:

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George Faller [00:16:48]:

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Laurie Watson [00:16:59]:

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George Faller [00:17:10]:

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Laurie Watson [00:17:24]:

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George Faller [00:17:49]:

Hey, we love Uber Lube. And thank you, listeners, for supporting Uberloob. Who supports us.

Laurie Watson [00:17:54]:

Uberlube.com with the code foreplay. Okay. We are doing our training for couples therapists on how to work with sex and the sexual attachment cycle. I’m so excited we’re going to do this. Sponsoring it ourselves. On March 3 and fourth.

George Faller [00:18:11]:

Yeah. Lori, this training is going to be pretty cool, right. We have a whole bunch of therapists already signed up, but this is a chance to really try to figure out how to bring that sexual cycle into the room to work with it.

Laurie Watson [00:18:22]:

Right? Exactly. And we’re going to go back and forth between the emotional and the sexual cycle and their interaction and how therapists can really get through when people are blocked in their sexual attachment and we want to do all kinds of things with them. How and when to bring up sex. What are the EFT change events working in the sexual attachment cycle? And I want to do four common sexual dysfunction blocks and I’m just excited. Anatomy and physiology. That’ll be fun.

George Faller [00:18:50]:

Don’t forget our best sex conversation and.

Laurie Watson [00:18:52]:

Our best sex conversation assessment.

George Faller [00:18:55]:

There’s really a ton of information. You’ll leave this training feeling much better equipped on how to work with it. And let’s face it, a lot of us don’t get enough training to feel skilled in this area and we need to do our work. And this is just a good step in that direction.

Laurie Watson [00:19:11]:

Yes. So you can find us on foreplaysextherapy.com and it’s under the resource section.

George Faller [00:19:17]:

Spread the word.

Laurie Watson [00:19:24]:

In helping this guy, we do want to support that drive and that part of him that really can enter it. And we want to help women be able to enter it better. After childbirth and after having kids. I am reminded of that episode where we laughed our heads off about nipple clamps. And I got to tell you, y’all, I mean, George and I, we’re sexual pursuers, so we get it. I mean, it was kind of funny because it’s one thing is not like the other. And I want you to know I was in touch with him. I talked to him about it through email. I shared with him the episode. I did not want to hurt his feelings. And really we’re on his side because I think both of us understand that drive to kind of push the envelope. We’re going away for a weekend and we would have done that with our partners, maybe. So we are not against sexual pursuers by any stretch, nor another comment is somehow or another, we’re insensitive to people with low desire. Oh, my gosh. I’ve spent my entire life working with people with low desire, trying to help and trying to have mercy. And I live in a female body, so I really do get it.

George Faller [00:20:33]:

Yeah. And just doing a podcast on sex, you’re going to step on people’s toes. It’s inevitable. And I do think it’s important if we want people to have more conversations around sex, some of the time it has to be light. You have to have fun, you have to laugh. Otherwise this stuff becomes too serious. And we just strengthen this dark cloud that’s always around sexual conversations. So if anything, we say in this podcast offends or it’s misattuned or we hurt someone’s feelings, we really appreciate our listeners reaching out and letting us know that’s how we grow. That’s how we get kind of educated. And we also hope our listeners can kind of join us sometimes in not taking this stuff too seriously. Because there’s more to sex than just kind of all this heavy stuff that we can kind of talk about mostly in our podcasts. Yeah, but let’s get back to this.

Laurie Watson [00:21:31]:

Man who wants to fuck, right?

George Faller [00:21:34]:

What you’re helping me with, Lori, is just recognizing for a lot of women, after childbirth, there isn’t as much choice as maybe men think. Men think it’s like, you know what? You liked it. Now all of a sudden you put into kids first and you don’t like it. It’s not so important, like you’re choosing to do that. And what you’re helping us to see is actually like, your body changes so rapidly, and there’s so many strikes that start to come up in the sexual realm, and then emotionally, you get pulled towards giving. And I mean, you kind of lose yourself sexually, and it’s more about the loss than it is about not wanting. And I think as a guy that helps me say, oh, man, you lost something, I want to help you find it. As opposed to you’re making a choice to hurt me.

Laurie Watson [00:22:20]:

Exactly. And I really do think as a man who he can fuck, his body is ready to fuck. And when he comes home and he’s had a hard day and he wants to discharge some stress her hard day, it’s going to take that transition so much longer to get up to a place where, okay, I’ve let go of all the needs of the children, all the needs of my work, all the needs of everybody who’s pulling at me. Because mostly still, women are primarily the caretakers. I mean, they’re the ones know. How many doctors appointments have you made for your kids, George?

George Faller [00:23:01]:

So many. Loss count.

Laurie Watson [00:23:07]:

I’m sure I know, Kathy, though. Yeah. Even if you pick up the children and put them to bed, there is still this mental burden. I think if you feel like you’re still in charge and getting rid of that mental burden is hard work, and letting go of the damn list is hard work, especially when you have kids, because your list triples. I remember the day when my children were all out of the house and I found the notebook with all their schedules, all the soccer schedules and their school schedules and all this thing that I kept track of. I was like, I can throw this damn thing away. I’m not tied to the multitude of issues that are going on in their lives. It’s like, I can be a little more free, which is great. Yeah.

George Faller [00:23:54]:

So I guess I would want to tell this guy two things. One is you’re not another child that what you want is healthy and beautiful. And I think when you get comfortable with that in your own skin, that you want to stand up not in a critical way, but in assertive way that feels like, I do have a right to say this. I think a lot of men feel so guilty about this, they wind up saying nothing at all. To say, no, you have a right to say this. And then part two is, how do I say it in a way my partner can hear it. And what I’m taking from you in this is it’s really important that I try to make time for you to discover this part of you that you’ve lost. It’s the lack of time and ability to refocus on you, to take again, you don’t really have the time for that. So I can keep adding more pressure on you by making demands, but that’s just going to do more of the same. It’s going to just get you further away from kind of you wanting to do it for you, and you doing it more for me. So how do I give you time? So you want to role play it?

Laurie Watson [00:24:59]:

Yes, let’s do that. Let’s do that. I want to hear I don’t know.

George Faller [00:25:03]:

What the heck I’m going to say, but we’re going for it.

Laurie Watson [00:25:06]:

Okay, let’s go for it.

George Faller [00:25:10]:

Even as I want to bring up this topic, I’ve already tried to figure out how to bring up talking about sex in a way that doesn’t criticize you, because I know that’s the history of our relationship around this, and I don’t want to do it. I do want to protect you in these conversations, and I also want to be able to kind of talk about me and what I want in a way that doesn’t feel like just another demand, another way of burdening you, and just another thing to put on your list, because it sets both of us up for kind of failure.

Laurie Watson [00:25:41]:

Yeah. Okay. I can feel my stomach a little bit tense, but I know you want to talk about it, so go ahead.

George Faller [00:25:49]:

Okay. And again, I can feel my trepidation. I can feel your tenseness. And it’s like somehow this dark cloud has come over our sex life, and we have to deal with that sometimes. It’s great, but I just want to be able to have some fun and some lightness around our sex life. I just want rainbows and the sun to come out and be like and I know it’s both of us that have created the clouds. This is not a you thing. When I think about our relationship and when things changed around kids, I’m really wondering how hard it must be for you to kind of have your body change and to have having to take care of this kid every moment and to worry about things. There’s not a lot of space for you sexually right and then I make you feel bad because you’re not in a mood, and it only makes things worse. So, again, I want to figure out how to help you. If you want that, maybe I could take some things off your list so you could find more time for you, because I think that’s what’s missing here.

Laurie Watson [00:27:04]:

Yeah, I don’t feel like I have much time for myself ever. Even when I’m commuting or something. I’m half in the door already about all the things that got to happen, make supper, get the kids off to soccer, just so many things. And then you’re right when you come home and you’re kind of charged up about sex, I’m like, where have you been? There’s a million damn things we got to do if I’m going to be sexual. It’s like end of the day, 930 after the kids are in bed, honey, I’m ready to drop. And I don’t want you to feel like there’s a dark cloud. And I agree. For me, the dark cloud is kind of just I’m in a fog. It’s more like a fog. I don’t even see sex anymore.

George Faller [00:28:03]:

Right. And again, that does bad things to both of us. I’m not sure I have any of the answers. I just think it’s good to talk about it. That’s what I want you to see with me that I’m not coming from. And I know I get frustrated at times, and I’m not frustrated at all now. I really just want us to face this together, to not have to point a finger at each other. I feel so bad a lot of times because I want to have sex. I want to be with you and I’m like, but that’s going to put pressure on you. Then I get mad at that. It feeds this cloud. Right. And again, that’s what I’m trying to figure out. How can I make space for you where you wanting sex? Tells me it’s okay for me to have sex and then we both win with that.

Laurie Watson [00:28:56]:

Yeah, I can understand what you’re saying because there are times I do want sex and there are times that we start having sex and then I’m glad we do it. But you’re right. I send you a lot of bad messages about your sex drive. I know I’ve said things that are probably pretty ugly. I think sometimes I just feel so bad about rejecting you that that bad feeling in me comes out as anger.

George Faller [00:29:26]:

No, I appreciate that. And again, I’m blaming the cloud, not blaming you. I hear that you’re in a place where you’re in the fog and you don’t even want sex, and here I come pressuring you. That can’t feel good.

Laurie Watson [00:29:40]:

Yeah, I hear that. I don’t know what to do about it. I do know these people who get away a lot, and I think sex for us on vacation is more alive and I feel more free when the kids. Aren’t around and I know we don’t have much money and this is a hard time for your work to get away, but that’s what my friend is doing and they are pretty intentional about it. They don’t go out to dinner much and they save up their money to do that. And that kind of sounds fun to me. And I think having some separateness some space from being a mom all the damn time and all that pressure, I would appreciate that.

George Faller [00:30:31]:

Thank you. I would take that. We have a nice date night schedule away somewhere. I think that would be great for our listeners. Maybe this is the fixing, it part of it, but maybe you agree for the next month to just touch base on this conversation saturday mornings and Lori brings it up one week, I bring it up the next week so it doesn’t get faller on one person’s shoulders to do it all the time. But really just a check in, right? It’s less about even having all the answers and more about being in the space together, facing that cloud together.

Laurie Watson [00:31:04]:

I agree. I just want to say though, that, yes, I kind of moved to a fix. But also if you can imagine as a man to hear a great idea and I think the reason she could come up with a great idea was because he was so gentle and so soft and so not blaming and it’s like suddenly she feels a little bit more free to imagine, what do I need?

George Faller [00:31:30]:

Exactly.

Laurie Watson [00:31:31]:

So I don’t think that that’s an unusual thing place to go to and.

George Faller [00:31:38]:

With a withdrawal is coming up with a solution you want to celebrate. That’s a big deal, that’s engagement. That is exactly what we’re looking for in these conversations. Good job. Okay, well, we thank you for all our listeners and for writing in and letting us into your struggle. And it’s a universal struggle. We know sexual discrepancy is par for the course. Every couple has it in some degree and it’s hard to talk about it without bringing in those dark clouds. But it does make a big deal if you face dark clouds together or alone. And that’s the invitation that we’re hoping you hear.

Laurie Watson [00:32:15]:

Thanks for listening.

George Faller [00:32:17]:

Keep it hot, y’all. Lori really excited here. 2 hours online. I’m going to do this view of self training for therapists, really trying to get moment by moment, how do we help our clients go deeper from that defensive focusing on that partner to these really deeper views of know. Every therapist wants to get there, but there’s not a lot of teaching on how to actually do it. Well, guess what? In this training, I’m going to break it down in concrete, tangible ways so you can kind of take some tools out of that training.

Laurie Watson [00:32:48]:

I think this is going to be good. I just saw you post it on the EFT group on Facebook and it’s really reasonable. Accessing the View of Self with George Fowler.

George Faller [00:32:57]:

Be there or be square.

Joe Davis – Announcer [00:32:58]:

Join George on February 24 for this live online event. Sign up [email protected].

George Faller [00:33:06]:

Quick shout out to Rebecca Jorgensen and her new exciting game to help couples.

Laurie Watson [00:33:12]:

You can find it on buildingalastingconnection.com the couple connection system. But if you get to the website, you’re going to find this. This is really a cool thing that we want you to take advantage of because it’s very reasonably priced and it basically takes principles of attachment and how you connect, how you can communicate better. It gives you communication starters, conversation starters. It is really a fun thing. We’re using it at our party this weekend for our therapists. We’re going to introduce it to them. It is also a physical thing because it has a mat that you kind of walk around and do these exercises with. The mat assists you to kind of stay focused with each other and grounded because you’re facing each other and you’re moving through this, which we all know, right? Our bodies and our emotions are connected.

George Faller [00:34:01]:

So it’s beautiful, resource, good stuff, highly recommend it. Check it out.

Laurie Watson [00:34:05]:

That’s buildingalastingconnection.com couple connection system.

Joe Davis – Announcer [00:34:11]:

Call in your questions to the Foreplay Question voicemail dial eight three three my foreplay. That’s eight three three my. The number four play and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.

Laurie Watson [00:34:36]:

Hey, guys. I’m Natalie Pouche, and I’m the host of your new favorite podcast, humble and Hungry. It’s time to grab your cheese board and your favorite bottle of wine because we’re having a girls night and we’re about to embark on a whole new journey as we juggle motherhood and blindfully navigating through our 30s. We’re talking life, drama, dating, and everything in between. I recommend listening to Humble and Hungry on the Iheart app on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. Ask.