Joe Davis – Announcer [00:00:00]:

The following content is not suitable for children.

Laurie Watson [00:00:02]:

George we’re going to talk about something that is so much fun. We’re going to talk about menopause today and how to think about it.

George Faller [00:00:10]:

Woohoo. Yeah.

Laurie Watson [00:00:16]:

Welcome to foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller [00:00:21]:

And I’m George Faller, a couple’s therapist.

Laurie Watson [00:00:23]:

We are here to talk about sex.

George Faller [00:00:25]:

Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind, and their hearts.

Laurie Watson [00:00:33]:

And we have a little bit of fun doing it right.

George Faller [00:00:35]:

G. Listen and let’s change some relationships.

Laurie Watson [00:00:39]:

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George Faller [00:01:52]:

Well, you know, Laurie, when I think about menopause, I think about struggles, tiredness, depression, loss of purpose. At a time in life when you’re getting older, you don’t look as good. Worried about kids and finances not being attractive, physical symptoms, hot flashes, night sweats, hot palpitations, memory difficulties. My head wants to pop, but I think about all the stress of menopause.

Laurie Watson [00:02:18]:

I know it it’s so much fun to go through, let me tell you. Really a great time of life. I was talking with some girlfriends the other night and we were saying, okay, what is good about menopause? And we did actually come up with something, but I’m going to save that because there is something that I think is really great. I think that what I hear so often from women is all of these physical symptoms combined with the emotional issues that are going on for them, this is a difficult, hormonal time. It’s like, I don’t know if you remember your wife when she was pregnant and hormonal, and I mean, there’s all sorts of weird stuff that goes on, right? She’s moody, she cries at the drop of a hat. Probably her sense of smell is just like, really great. I remember I was pregnant and I came in the house. I’m like, what’s that horrible smell? And finally we isolated it to this tiny, tiny little piece of broccoli that had not washed down the drain. And it’s like I could smell that. And it’s kind of like that in menopause, things get weird. And sense of smell is one of the things that gets really acute and you can tell if your partner is not out of shower in five minutes. Just all kinds of weird stuff goes on. And I think if you’re like me, who doesn’t do really well with new symptoms in the body, it just alarms me. I mean, you’re basically in for a ride because there’s going to be all sorts of changes. And I want to help women and then I want to help their partners because I think what do you hear from men, your guy friends, when they talk about their wives going through menopause crazy land? Crazy land?

George Faller [00:04:04]:

Yeah, it feels like crazy land. I mean, I always think this is why women are the better half of the species. If men had menopause and periods and given birth, I don’t think we’d be around. But from a distance, it seems a little wild because you’re not in that person’s body. Like they turn into a stranger. Like the moodiness and sex can already be a struggle. And then you throw this into the mix and it’s like you can see why a lot of couples, this is where they turn into sexless during this period of time. And it’s like they don’t know how to have conversations around it. It leads to fights. And now you have marital discard on top of stresses in your body and no form of communicating. And a lot of couples, this is a real struggle.

Laurie Watson [00:04:47]:

Yeah, it really is. It’s a big struggle. I would say almost for everybody, it’s a new struggle. And it doesn’t mean that people split apart during this time or don’t manage it, but it’s a brand new body. It’s a new thing you got to cope with and deal with. And I think as a woman, there’s so much that’s going on and it kind of sneaks up on you. Like suddenly out of nowhere, you still have your period and then suddenly you’ve got this crazy hot flash. It’s like, what was that? I have a girlfriend who calls it that. She’s temperature challenged, so she wears layers and sometimes she’s taking off those layers and sometimes she’s putting them on because you go from kind of hot to cold and sometimes at night. I think the most difficult thing is you don’t sleep well. And I’m sure you know this with your clients who are anxious or depressed. Like, lack of sleep is a major contributor to mood disorders because if you haven’t slept all night or had a really good sleep, it’s very hard to manage your sense of hope and optimism.

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Laurie Watson [00:06:26]:

I do think one of the things that we’ve talked about a lot is, and I think you just said it, is that when you’re not in that body, it’s hard to imagine another body that has a whole different chemistry in what they feel. I think so many men get their feelings hurt because they’re turned on. They want sex, they have desire. And even before menopause hits, women don’t have anywhere near the testosterone. They need other inputs and influences to really want sex. And so it can feel probably really rejecting. It’s like, my body tells me an absolute truth. My body tells me sex is on. And when you’re looking at your partner and their body doesn’t say that, it can feel, I’m sure, just psychologically, emotionally rejecting.

George Faller [00:07:14]:

Right. And I think we got to back up a second because this starts all the way from the beginning with the period. If you don’t talk about it, if you can’t have conversations as a couple, if your go to move is just to hide it and struggle on your own, this stuff just carries forward into menopause. Now, there’s no bridge. There’s no way of talking about it. Here you are struggling in your body. Your body’s changing. I like your image, like you have a new body. I always think, as a guy, selfishly, like, oh, it’s kind of cool not to have your period, but that’s something you get used to. It’s part of you that you lose. So there’s loss here. There’s so much emotionally to unpack, and there’s no bridge to share it with. So I know we did in previous episodes talking about a period and how important it is for men to be involved in this process, to be able to talk about these things because you want to know your partner. This is another way of knowing your partner. So I guess that’s what’s hitting me as you’re talking. I’m like, you know, damn. Women that are struggling with this usually don’t talk about it, maybe to other women, but they don’t talk about it to men. So I think most men are pretty oblivious to it. They know something’s changing, but that’s about it.

Laurie Watson [00:08:25]:

I agree. I don’t think they often talk about it with men. And I think that in the era that I grew up in, you were raised to hide your period. You don’t want any of that mess to show up in the waste paper basket. You got to hide everything. My dad I lived with my dad for a while, and my stepmom said, don’t ever ask dad to go get those supplies for you. At the store because he would be embarrassed and just kind of all those.

George Faller [00:08:50]:

Sense little messages, right.

Laurie Watson [00:08:52]:

Little bits of shame. I will say that I think you’re right. A lot of women are relieved that they don’t have their period. That was not how it was for me. I loved having my period. I felt this life force in me. It was, like, so exciting to think I could have a baby, that this was proof of fertility, that it just very much felt like life to me. So I was not a woman who said, oh, great, I’m done with all that. I never felt like that. I was always joyful about it. Even I had cramps like any other woman and stuff, but it was something that I celebrated and felt good about. So the loss of it was not this, oh, yeah, I’m all done with that. It was like, oh, boo. I don’t have this little reminder every month of who I am as a woman, so it wasn’t joyful to me.

George Faller [00:09:40]:

Particularly, and it’s certainly a reminder that your clock is ticking and you are now an older person that’s like, welcome to the old age club.

Laurie Watson [00:09:50]:

Yeah, it is, definitely. Clock is ticking and it’s proof that you have aged. And so I think that’s difficult, too, I think, especially in an era that celebrates youth. Right. Young women are beautiful. I get that. I totally get that.

George Faller [00:10:07]:

All right, Laurie. Now I’m depressed here. I think all my years of avoidance kind of protected me from this.

Laurie Watson [00:10:17]:

Well, and, you know, I think male partners have to think about this. And it isn’t just the woman that might bring it up. I think the man might say, hey, where are you at? In terms of menopause? Tell me what’s going on.

George Faller [00:10:31]:

Right. As a woman, they hear that kind of interest, that when a guy initiates a conversation, instead of always just responding to it, it makes such a difference because it tells your female partner, you matter to me. I’m thinking about you and I’m being very intentional in keeping my focus on your world, which is we all want that at times.

Laurie Watson [00:10:56]:

Absolutely. I think it would be very caring to hear from your partner. Just tell me about your symptoms, what’s going on? It’s kind of some relief.

George Faller [00:11:07]:

Hope. Some men are writing this down. They’re going to surprise their partner tonight. And if your partner is going through menopause, you’re going to be the hero of this story.

Laurie Watson [00:11:17]:

You are. Be the hero. Ask about menopause. And I think menopause starts with perimenopause, which is a season before you actually stop your periods. And so that’s really the transition. That’s when you start getting all these symptoms and things like that and may not know what’s going on. And some women, that starts really early. Some women, it’s very late.

George Faller [00:11:44]:

What’s the range?

Laurie Watson [00:11:45]:

Oh, my gosh, George. It can be from 40, right? Perimenopause can start in 40. There’s also something called premature menopause, where women basically go through the change, the pause on their periods very, very early, and some go through it very late. But it’s about 59 is kind of the cut off. 59, 59 years old. So it’s about 40 to 59 years old is kind of the range of when women start going through it. And it takes about I don’t see.

George Faller [00:12:18]:

Any Facebook posts on this stuff.

Laurie Watson [00:12:21]:

Nice.

George Faller [00:12:21]:

Hey, I went through my menopause. I started my menopause today with a little picture. Again, our culture just massively avoids this.

Laurie Watson [00:12:29]:

It does. And it takes about three to five years to get through menopause. So you’re going through transition. Yeah, you’re going through transition for quite a while. And of course, we’re concerned about how does this impact the couple and their sex lives. And I want to offer a few things that I’ve been thinking about because I just think there is some hope. And the way we approach it together, the way we manage this together can really, really help both people, because I think men definitely want sex to go on, and most women do, too. And what are we going to do with this new body?

George Faller [00:13:07]:

Yeah. That is really important to take an approach that it’s a team. Right. This is an isolated and so often, I think that’s the root of the problems, the isolation, it’s the hiding it’s, the not being able to talk about it. So, like so many topics we’re sharing, we are really inviting couples to face it together. We know the nervous system deals with threat qualitatively different if you’re with somebody than in isolation. So Lori’s going to give us all this great kind of hope around a topic that really is a new body. So I’m excited to hear.

Laurie Watson [00:13:43]:

Okay. Hey, don’t forget to check out Uberlube.com with the coupon foreplay. It really helps us to support the podcast and keep delivering free content. Thanks so much. Sock doc, have you ever asked the question, Is this normal? Trust me, it’s a question I get all the time. And maybe you’ve been stewing about a health problem or something that you’re worried about and you don’t know. And maybe you’re resorting to Facebook or asking your friends, Listen, go to the doctor. It is such relief for me when I go and I get the help I need. And how do you find a quality doctor? Go to ZocDoc.com, use our promo code foreplay. And basically there are thousands of medical professionals on Zoctalk that are there to help you. And the cool thing is, they will listen like a friend, but they’ll give you the expert care that you really need and the good information that you need to really put your mind at rest. I think that that is worth the trip and worth the reduction in anxiety. To get that help, go to ZocDoc.com. Use the code foreplay so that they know that we’ve sent you and find a qualified professional in an easy way that lets you know if they take your insurance, if they’re close to you and they treat every condition under the sun. If you want to know is this normal, go to ZocDoc.com foreplay and download the ZocDoc app for free. Then find and book a top rated doctor today. Many are available within 24 hours. That’s Docdoc.com foreplay. Docdoc.com Foreplay.

George Faller [00:15:24]:

Quick shout out to Rebecca Jorgensen and her new exciting game to help couples.

Laurie Watson [00:15:30]:

You can find it on buildingalastingconnection.com the couple connection system. But if you get to the website, you’re going to find this. This is really a cool thing that we want you to take advantage of because it’s very reasonably priced and it basically takes principles of attachment and how you connect, how you can communicate better. It gives you communication starters, conversation starters. It is really a fun thing. We’re using it at our party this weekend for our therapists. We’re going to introduce it to them. It is also a physical thing because it has a mat that you kind of walk around and do these exercises with. The mat assists you to kind of stay focused with each other and grounded because you’re facing each other and you’re moving through this, which we all know, right. Our bodies and our emotions are connected.

George Faller [00:16:19]:

So it’s beautiful, resource, good stuff, highly recommend it. Check it out.

Laurie Watson [00:16:23]:

That’s buildingalastingconnection.com couple connection system. So George, are you going to run home tonight and ask Kathy, where are you at in Menopause? What’s happening in your body?

George Faller [00:16:40]:

It sounds like a good idea, but I have a feeling when I actually sit down in that chair, I’m going to go, so I’m going to try to push myself past it. I think the check in is really is beautiful. And I’ve started changing this already around the period conversation. I never had that in my life. And now I can say, hey, it’s your period coming up. There’s some freedom in that for me, too. It’s not just feels good for her to be able to talk about it, but I think there’s something in me that avoidance. Avoidance becomes strong over time and it winds up limiting our range of potential behaviors. So I don’t know, there’s something good about it when I ask that question. So hopefully I can get there with Menopause, too.

Laurie Watson [00:17:26]:

Yeah. And I will tell you what I’ve told my sons is track her period, especially if she’s regular track her period. There’s apps out there on phones that are period trackers. And you should put in your wife’s or girlfriend’s period. Because why? First of all, you know, that mid cycle, she’s going to be super horny and the day before she might be horny. And you also are more prepared like the week before. Okay, my wife is crabby. She’s being a bitch. Like, what’s going on? Oh, her period is coming. She’s coping with all this stuff. I think in terms of mood, testosterone is a mood stabilizer. When you’re on testosterone, it’s as good as taking an SSRI, which is an antidepressant, or a mood stabilizer. Right. Testosterone makes you feel optimistic. So if your wife is like, I don’t know, I’m negative, it’s like, well, it could be actually part of her hormones. Not a good thing to say. Like, are you on your period or are you starting? That kind of blaming stance maybe doesn’t help, but an understanding of she’s kind of low. Maybe what’s happening is her period. And I think men again, right, they live in a body that says, why are you so variable? Nothing really much changed from yesterday. Today, what’s happening?

George Faller [00:18:51]:

Most men are rooting for a delayed menopause. Hopefully that’s that 59 range. With your partner, you’re hoping it doesn’t come.

Laurie Watson [00:19:02]:

That’s right, exactly. Yeah. I had a late menopause, and I felt like it was a gift for all these years of talking to people about sex and trying to help people. I was blessed with a late menopause.

George Faller [00:19:15]:

So talk to us about the hope.

Laurie Watson [00:19:17]:

Okay, the hope. First of all, I want us to think about we’ve talked about the mennow aspect, the period aspect. I want us to think about the pause that this is a pause in life. And it’s an opportunity. It’s an opportunity to really examine our lives, our bodies, what we want, where we’re going in life. And I think thinking very mindfully about this opportunity to reflect and maybe using some self compassion, here is the way to get through it and the way to come out on the other side victorious. So I run with a bunch of girlfriends who have been through menopause, and all of them are surfers now. They’re out there surfing. They are out there challenging their bodies, having sort of really vibrant life experiences. And some of it is because of the way they’ve approached this second part of their life. I think for me, one aspect is, okay, if my body is different, how do I optimize my body at this point? And I think what I came to, first of all, is strength is really important. I wanted to be strong. When you lose estrogen, you also lose bone mass, and so that’s one of the consequences. And so if you don’t do anything, your bones become more brittle, you’re more subject to falling. Your balance gets off, all of that stuff that happens with aging. So I know for me, the strength training became very important to do just so that I was certain that I would be going into the next phase of life, my older age, with the ability to cope with all the things that were coming. I also think that when you are in touch with your body and not just putting it out there right. I know a lot of friends, too, who have done nothing with their bodies after menopause. They’ve maybe gained weight or they’ve just lost muscle. And one of the things I hear so much is they’re not in touch with their body. They don’t feel their body. They are maybe rejecting of their aging body. And if you’re rejecting of your aging body, you don’t exercise, you don’t strength train. It’s very, very hard to be in touch with your sexual body as well because it’s all of one piece.

George Faller [00:21:51]:

It’s a nice I never even thought about the pause to focus on the pause as an opportunity to reflect and to be more intentional. I have seen a lot of women, after menopause become more comfortable in their body. They care less about what they used to care about and worry about. And especially during sex, they become more in their body because you know what? Why did I not focus on this? And I was worried about everything else. And there’s something about this transition period that women that are really intentional about it seem to do so much better. So I like that you’re starting with that to see the opportunity in the pause.

Laurie Watson [00:22:34]:

Yeah, exactly. And to see their body as a place that they find joy and pleasure instead of something that they’re so worried about being perfect. I mean, turns out none of us age into perfection. We all change.

George Faller [00:22:49]:

Not a fine bottle of wine.

Laurie Watson [00:22:51]:

Not a fine bottle of wine, usually. So I think you’re right. This is one of the bonuses, is that many women say, you know what I need to find for me? What works sexually. And I need to let go of these inhibitions that I have had. I mean, I look back at my thirty s and it’s like, I thought I was fat, or my thighs were jiggly, or this wasn’t right, or that that’s what they say. And it’s like now I look back at that 30 year old body and it’s like, man, I was fucking hot. Oops, excuse me. I think there’s this sense of this is the body I got. I got to live in it. I want to enjoy it. Yes.

George Faller [00:23:33]:

Right.

Laurie Watson [00:23:33]:

Yes. And so right at the time, of course, that your hormones are decreasing. When our hormones decrease estrogen, progesterone and testosterone, we’re going to have a drier vagina as a woman, we’re going to have physiological lower libido. My sense is that for most women who have strong libido, by the time they get to menopause, is they have found another pathway to libido. It’s never really been in our bodies as a female. We don’t have enough testosterone anywhere close to what men have. So if we have libido, we have found other paths. And those paths, thank God, hold us through menopause. And usually I think it’s a path of fantasy, of focus and intention about this and this entitlement to pleasure. Also, I think, emotional connection with our partner. We know what it feels like after we make love. We feel better. We feel closer. They feel closer. Those are powerful motivators.

George Faller [00:24:38]:

Yeah. I want to highlight this different pathway because I think it’s so important men get used to testosterone. So that’s what they use. That’s their pathway. But for women to develop that erotic mind I’ve never met a woman who says sex is really important to me when they say that, and they believe that their sex life will be good for the rest of their lives.

Laurie Watson [00:25:04]:

George, how do you sex is really important to me.

George Faller [00:25:07]:

There you go. That’s why you have a great sex.

Laurie Watson [00:25:09]:

You have finally met a woman who.

George Faller [00:25:11]:

Said that you have to find a different pathway. Right. And women that prioritize sex or really enjoy sex, they find those pathways. So I’ve never clicked, like, as you were saying, that what some women are doing in menopause because of this pause, and they actually find that other women find that different pathway earlier. But we should be encouraging women. What is your pathway? What is it that gets you super kind of into sex for you, not for your partner? It’s great to be responsive and receptive, and that’s all great, but those moments when you want sex for you, what gets you going? What’s that gas pedal? And I like that you’re emphasizing that with women going through menopause, like, this is another opportunity to find your different yes.

Laurie Watson [00:25:59]:

Yes. And I think that it’s okay to know. I think with the maturity one of the things that I dropped was a lot of the old messaging about being a good girl. And, you know, George, I still struggle with that a little bit. Like, I’m doing a podcast. I’m talking about sex on the air to millions of people. This is like, what am I doing? There’s this sense of inhibition still even in me, and I struggle. But I have dropped a lot of what I grew up with about kind of the good girl part of me that really inhibited my enjoyment of sex with my partner. So I want to say first, girlfriend, I want you to really focus on what George said. What makes, you know, give me your best scenario. Second thing I want you to focus on is sleep. I think women are carrying when they go to bed, the weight of the world, their family’s concerns, their concerns, their minds don’t stop racing. And I just want you to know, I give you permission to lay it down. Lay it down and go to sleep. It’s okay. The world will be there in the morning. Just please lay it down and go to sleep. And I picture in my own room that when the worries start coming, I suck them out of my head and I put them in the drawer in the nightstand. I just visually do that. I put them in the nightstand. I will deal with that in the morning. I’ll think about that tomorrow because I got to sleep. So please focus on your sleep because you can’t feel horny if you are tired. And also use a vibrator. Really, really, truly use a vibrator. Vibrators are tools in menopause, not just toys. Because as the hormones change, you need more stimulation. This is a great thing to do and take care of your vulva. Use estrogen. Talk to your doctor about hormone replacement. Please. Please talk to them. There’s so many good reasons for it. There’s been a lot of scare in the media, but so many good reasons for it. For your brain, for your bones, for your heart, for your sex drive, really. Also, if you’re terrified of estrogen, I want you to use vitamin E oil. Just get one of those little capsules, high quality vitamin E oil. Put a pin in it, poke it, rub it all over your vagina, your clitoris. Put it on the inside part of your vagina as well, your actual vagina. There’s things you can do, right? This is a time in life that you got to take care of yourself. Many women get surgery for things that got messed up when they were in childbirth. Get all that stuff repaired, get it done. And then I want to encourage men. How can you help? What can you do? I think the first thing is we know women turn on when their partner conveys that they are attractive. I saw one of your face posts recently, George, and your wife did look stunning and hot. But you know, out with my beautiful wife for the evening. And I was know that that is so powerful because even if she doesn’t see that post, her girlfriend see that post and that’s going to go back. They’re going to tell her, you see what your husband posted about how hot you looked. All of that is such a good word. And I think men can really capitalize on seeing their wife. The beauty that’s there. I see my husband kind of through the ages. I saw him on a Zoom call recently and I’m like, oh yeah, I suppose people looking in him see an older man. But I see him in many, many different stages. Sort of collapsed and smoking hot to me.

George Faller [00:29:45]:

Nice. Yeah. And for men, have that conversation, see the opportunity in the pause. It’s not just an opportunity for your wife. It’s an opportunity for you to get to know her better, for her to get to know you better. Right? How sad. So many couples just missed this. It’s an important part of their life that’s never shared. It’s never discussed once. You know, you can’t unknow. So you got homework assignment. People get out there and talk about it.

Laurie Watson [00:30:12]:

No better, do better. I also think if you’re a guy, you could be offering her kind of her only nights, which she doesn’t have to reciprocate. She doesn’t have to give back whatever she wants, foot rubs, back rubs, an orgasm. Like give that to her. With no reciprocity required. I promise you, if you do that and you say, look it, I’ll take care of myself in the shower, just don’t. I want to touch you in the ways you want to be touched, and I want you to lay back and enjoy. That’s it. I mean, so many of us as women are givers. We think about touching, we think about pleasing our partner. This is a new moment, a pause to start to think, what do I want? And can I communicate that to my partner? So, gentlemen, I would definitely offer that one up.

George Faller [00:31:02]:

Nice.

Laurie Watson [00:31:04]:

Okay, well, thanks for listening. Take a pause. Give yourself self compassion. This is a lot of change that’s going on. Be merciful to yourself and sleep.

George Faller [00:31:15]:

I’m glad you can keep it hot during menopause.

Laurie Watson [00:31:19]:

Thanks for listening. Okay, we are doing our training for couples therapists on how to work with sex and the sexual attachment cycle. I’m so excited we’re going to do this sponsoring it ourselves on March 3 and fourth.

George Faller [00:31:34]:

Yeah, Lori, this training is going to be pretty cool, right? We have a whole bunch of therapists already signed up. But this is a chance to really try to figure out how to bring that sexual cycle into the room to work with it, right?

Laurie Watson [00:31:45]:

Exactly. And we’re going to go back and forth between the emotional and the sexual cycle and their interaction and how therapists can really get through when people are blocked in their sexual attachment. And we want to do all kinds of things with them. How and when to bring up sex, what are the EFT change events working in the sexual attachment cycle? And I want to do four common sexual dysfunction blocks and I’m just excited. Anatomy and physiology. That’ll be fun.

George Faller [00:32:13]:

Don’t forget our best sex conversation and.

Laurie Watson [00:32:16]:

Our best sex conversation assessment.

George Faller [00:32:18]:

There’s really a ton of information. You’ll leave this training feeling much better equipped on how to work with it. And let’s face it, a lot of us don’t get enough training to feel skilled in this area, and we need to do our work. And this is just a good step in that direction.

Laurie Watson [00:32:34]:

Yes. So you can find us on Foreplaysextherapy.com and it’s under the resource section.

George Faller [00:32:41]:

Spread the word.

Joe Davis – Announcer [00:32:43]:

Call in your questions to the Foreplay question. Voicemail dial eight, three, three, my. Foreplay. That’s eight, three, three, my. The number four play and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.

Speaker Ads [00:33:07]:

Hey, guys. I’m Natalie Pouche, and I’m the host of your new favorite podcast, humble and Hungry. It’s time to grab your cheese board and your favorite bottle of wine because we’re having a girls night and we’re about to embark on a whole new journey as we juggle motherhood and blindly navigating through our 30s. We’re talking life, drama, dating and everything in between. I recommend listening to Humble and Hungry on the Iheart app on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.