Joe Davis – Announcer [00:00:00]:

The following content is not suitable for children.

George Faller [00:00:02]:

I’m just too tired. We’re too busy for sex. Laurie. What is going on here?

Laurie Watson [00:00:07]:

I cannot believe you’re too busy for sex. That’s crazy. Welcome to foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller [00:00:18]:

And I’m George Faller, your couple’s therapist.

Laurie Watson [00:00:21]:

We are here to talk about sex.

George Faller [00:00:23]:

Our mission is to help couple Talk About sex in Ways that Incorporate Their body, their Mind, and their hearts.

Laurie Watson [00:00:31]:

And we have a little bit of fun doing it.

George Faller [00:00:32]:

Right, g. Listen and let’s change some relationships. One Of The most common lines we hear just too busy. Just not enough hours in a day. Or I’m just exhausted. The last thing I can imagine doing is, like, getting reared up for sex. What’s going on with this, Laurie?

Laurie Watson [00:00:53]:

You’re too busy for sex? Too tired for sex. You know, one of the Things I always say to couples who come See me know, if you spent the money that you’re spending on therapy on a hotel room, you’re taking an hour out of your week. If you were just going to the hotel and having sex, you probably wouldn’t be having to come see me.

George Faller [00:01:17]:

Trying to put us out of business here, Laurie.

Laurie Watson [00:01:19]:

I am. I figured that would do it.

George Faller [00:01:21]:

I should buy some stock in hotels now. Well, our listeners are going to start.

Laurie Watson [00:01:26]:

That should be our new venture. Gee. Yeah, we could advertise. We could advertise for hotels.

George Faller [00:01:31]:

All right. Not a bad idea.

Laurie Watson [00:01:34]:

Not a bad idea.

George Faller [00:01:35]:

You know me, I always love the Irish saying, everybody focuses on the drinking but not the thirst. So as a therapist, I always try to get curious what’s the function of these excuses, of these protections? There’s always something going on, and our body’s pretty wise. And maybe you’re too tired for sex because the sex you’re having isn’t too remarkable or worse. It’s bad. Right. So I think the avoidance in this show, we’re always trying to appreciate the avoidance, right? Even though the impact sucks. The intent is just to make us feel safe. So not engaging in sex for some people, is better than facing the failure, the rejection, your body not working, the shame. So again, too tired becomes an adaptive, short term solution that tries to avoid these more negative feelings, but at the cost of creating more and more distance in a relationship.

Laurie Watson [00:02:29]:

Yeah, and I’ll bet people physiologically do feel too tired for sex. I mean, when things are not going well, it’s like all of that energy. Are you kidding? Get up for that. No, don’t want to do that. Most people are not they’re not lying when they say that they really are too tired.

George Faller [00:02:50]:

You’re making a really good point that the state of the relationship, the state of that emotional bond can really impact our energy levels. I know when I’m in a good place with my wife, it’s like I’m on top of the world, you got that power kind of running through you. But when you’re grinding and you’re fighting and there’s a lot of negativity and you go to work and you deal with negativity and you come home, you’re dealing with negativity, that just stress response really does tax your nervous system.

Laurie Watson [00:03:16]:

I thought you said you were never too tired for sex. Gee.

George Faller [00:03:19]:

Well, listen, I’m trying to normalize it for the rest of the world out there. Some of us, well, it is harder to relate to it when sex is a stress release. So for me, even when I’m tired, I want to have sex because having sex is a great way of just releasing all that kind of stress my.

Laurie Watson [00:03:40]:

Body’S holding on to and anxiety and all of that.

George Faller [00:03:43]:

Yeah, but for some people, it goes the other direction. The stress really shuts down their body and it’s harder for them to access. I guess we were talking a lot about is your style more you’re the initiator or you’re more receptive? If you’re the receptive person being too tired, it’s hard to access that energy. It really does impact your ability to have sex.

Laurie Watson [00:04:06]:

Yeah. Menopause. Menopause actually does make you a little more tired for sex than I would have imagined. Zaps your energy, all those hormones going crazy.

George Faller [00:04:17]:

Speaking for the women out there, you talk about this needing 20 minutes window to just kind of get geared up. If you are tired and you got to face that, that feels like a bigger mountain than when you have good energy.

Laurie Watson [00:04:30]:

I would imagine it does, absolutely. I think for the women that I talk to, it’s Wednesday night, right. And they know how much time they need to get their bodies engaged and they don’t feel like they’ve got that time, so they are too tired. But I think what you said about how sex for you releases stress and makes you feel relaxed and all that, I think for many people it’s also a form of connection and good feelings. But if you’re pretty certain that you’re not going to get connected or you’re not going to even have time to be connected, it’s like, no, I don’t have any time for that. I’m too busy, too tired. Going into that doesn’t sound like a fun thing at all.

George Faller [00:05:22]:

But wouldn’t that be a more accurate message to send your partner? Right. I’m just not in the mood, or I am tired. I’m always pretty tired, but sometimes that’s not enough to shut the act down and sometimes it is. So I think it is more accurate to talk about the state of the relationship or how close you’re feeling. I find the same thing. Most people who are too tired are feeling pretty disconnected.

Laurie Watson [00:05:48]:

Yeah, absolutely. Saying what’s really true. But I think if you’re kind of a withdrawer, that’s hard to do because you think, okay, now I’m going to have to bring up something else that I’m too tired to think about and talk about. Why do I want to do that when all I really need is to go to bed? I don’t want to have a fight, I don’t want to talk about it. But I think sexual connection is not necessarily just having sex, telling your partner about what’s happening on the inside and maybe staying engaged with them sexually. It could be a flirty thing, it could be a text, it could be anything. It could just be saying, hey, would love to any other night or Saturday night or something. I am really dead right now and just explaining yourself. But I think that’s not where we run into problems. We’re talking about the too tired, too busy as a defense that people use.

George Faller [00:06:46]:

But you’re really highlighting the dilemma. You really are tired and you don’t have enough time for good sex. And that’s going to set you up for feeling like you’re failing or your body’s not working. And to actually say that is going to lead to a long conversation and probably some fighting and hurting your partner’s feelings. So say you’re too tired. It is a really simple way of avoiding all of that messiness.

Laurie Watson [00:07:13]:

Absolutely.

George Faller [00:07:14]:

And you are so tired you will go to bed pretty quickly. So if your partner was just okay with it, it kind of works. The problem is when you’re too tired, that’s really going to light up your partner and then there isn’t a way of talking about it. The whole mission of this podcast is to get people to talk about it. Because when they could talk about it, they can deal with it, they can repair. If you can’t talk about it, you’re in trouble. And I think a lot of people don’t recognize that when they say they’re too tight chronically what that’s setting them up for the partnership is a failure to be able to repair it.

Laurie Watson [00:07:52]:

Exactly. This episode is brought to you by Special K. However hectic life gets, the fuel you choose matters. So Special K has made two new irresistible varieties. Special K, high protein with real almonds, a rich chocolate flavor, and 20 grams of protein. And Special K with 0 gram of sugar packed with cinnamon flavor, 20 grams of protein and two net carbs. Visit Specialk.com to find a retailer near you. I think as a woman, it’s obviously easier to have sex when you’re tired, especially if you’re with a male partner who’s got a lot of energy. You can sort of be more passive and it can all work out. I think it’s harder if it’s the other way around.

George Faller [00:08:38]:

Well, there’s lots of meanings for you’re. Too tired, not harder. A lot of men use too tired as like, well, now you’re going to initiate when it’s already too late. No, too tired is a way of rejecting. It’s not like they are too tired, it’s just they’re going to say that as a way of just screw this. It’s too late now. But there are some men who too tied, does the same thing. It’s like, I don’t want to have to face, is it going to work or am I going to disappoint my partner? I’ve had a long day. I just think about it tomorrow. And again, it’s just a way of avoiding some immediacy of some negative emotion.

Laurie Watson [00:09:19]:

Yeah. And I think for men, it can just be the avoidance of intimacy. So they are busy with their careers, they’re busy with school, with whatever is going on. But it’s a defense against being intimate with their partner.

George Faller [00:09:36]:

Too much pressure.

Laurie Watson [00:09:38]:

Too much pressure.

George Faller [00:09:39]:

It’s a great way of avoiding the pressure. Just roll over and go to bed.

Laurie Watson [00:09:43]:

Yeah, exactly.

George Faller [00:09:44]:

Tomorrow is another day.

Laurie Watson [00:09:45]:

And so hurtful to the partner. What would we say to the partner who’s getting that excuse? It’s not really an excuse. It’s a defense against something.

George Faller [00:09:58]:

Right.

Laurie Watson [00:09:59]:

I mean, I think if it’s repeated over and over, I know the increasing frustration. When we were young, you know, my husband was in school and it was always like, I gotta study, I gotta go to the library. I’m I’m exhausted my fantasy. You just named my fantasy.

George Faller [00:10:21]:

Section authors.

Laurie Watson [00:10:25]:

Exactly.

George Faller [00:10:27]:

Come on, Derek. He’s listening. Get on the game here.

Laurie Watson [00:10:31]:

That was when he was young. But I think if you hear it and you start to say, my partner always has an excuse, I mean, the horribleness inside is they don’t want me. They’re not attracted to me. Maybe they want someone else. I mean, there’s all kinds of things you can make up inside. And that stops, I think, you from talking about it reasonably.

George Faller [00:10:56]:

Right.

Laurie Watson [00:10:57]:

I’ve noticed this pattern that when I’m approaching you, you’re often busy. Could you tell me what’s going on here? Is there anything that I can understand a little bit about what you’re feeling about sex or about being intimate or something? Although if you’re a sexual pursuer, you’ve probably asked that 500 different ways and different times. And I think what is difficult is what all sexual pursuers say to me is like, Lori, I’ve done that. I’ve tried that. I’ve asked that. I’ve asked it softly. I’ve asked it angrily. I’ve asked it every which way. We got to help them.

George Faller [00:11:37]:

Yeah. Listen, just like we’re trying to get the withdrawals to listen to that tired. It’s serving a function for those pursuers to listen to the rejection. It’s giving you information. You are being rejected. Your body wants something that your partner doesn’t want, and that’s an ouch. That hurts. It sucks. What’s the most effective way of talking about that ouch? I think that’s where couples get caught up. It’s so easy to turn that into anger and criticism and focus on the other person instead of communicating directly what’s happening for you. So let’s play with this. Let’s come back and you’re going to be too tired for sex.

Laurie Watson [00:12:11]:

Okay, I’ll be too tired.

George Faller [00:12:16]:

Cozy Earth, one of our favorite brands.

Laurie Watson [00:12:20]:

OOH. These are truly the best sheets of my life. I don’t sleep with anything but Cozy Earth’s bamboo sheets. They are so silky soft. They invite you seriously to take your clothes off and get under the sheets. They are temperature regulating, and it adds casual elegance to any space. They have luxury bedding essentials backed by a lengthy warranty. And I’m telling you, I have to buy them for every bed. They feel so soft. Cozy Earth has provided an exclusive offer for our listeners today. 35% off sitewide. When you use the code foreplay. This is so special. Please think about buying cozy earth. They are so soft, you guys. So good.

George Faller [00:13:07]:

And don’t forget, listeners, cozy Earth provided exclusive offer today for our listeners. 35% off.

Laurie Watson [00:13:14]:

Yes. Cozyearth.com with the code foreplay. Uber Lube. It’s a luxury lubricant. Can you say that three times fast? Uber Lube. Luxury Lubricant. Basically, it’s pure silicone bliss. It is made from superior ingredients. It has skin, soothing vitamin E, and it goes on just like natural moisture. And it lasts a long time. There’s no drip. Their glass bottles are truly beautiful. You can leave them on your bedstand. I do no problem. Nobody notices. And it’s basically like this thin, slippery silicone formulation. It reduces friction, which is great, but it doesn’t reduce sensation. And it stays slippery long enough for lasting pleasure. They have travel friendly, toughened glass bottles. You can slip it in your gym bag. You can slip it in your purse. You can be ready whenever. Try. Uber lube. The silicone [email protected]. Use the Code foreplay for 10% off. Really? It is the best lubricant on the market.

George Faller [00:14:23]:

All right, Laurie, you’re too tired.

Laurie Watson [00:14:26]:

Jane and Joey.

George Faller [00:14:27]:

Jane and Joey. I like Joey. I’m going to be Joey. I can be Joey.

Laurie Watson [00:14:33]:

Hey, Joey.

George Faller [00:14:35]:

Hey, Jane. What were you thinking? Want to get busy tonight? Who was so, so much we’re just trying to help people have fun with us as we’re listening, and we’re just playing around, trying to imagine how couples can really have this conversation in a different way. Let’s do it the way most of the time it happens.

Laurie Watson [00:14:55]:

Okay?

George Faller [00:14:56]:

Right. So, Jane, what do you think? Are you in a little mood?

Laurie Watson [00:15:02]:

Joey, it’s Wednesday. You know, buddy, I gotta, like, get up early on Thursday morning for the staff. Just I gotta get some sleep.

George Faller [00:15:15]:

All you do is say you want to get some sleep. I mean, you even realize the last time we had sex was, like, way over a week ago. You never make it a priority. I just forget about it.

Laurie Watson [00:15:28]:

Just go to bed.

George Faller [00:15:29]:

No, just go to bed. It’s fine. Next week, right? Next Wednesday? Sure.

Laurie Watson [00:15:35]:

Not every Wednesday. You’re just not getting it. It’s like, yeah, I’m exhausted.

George Faller [00:15:42]:

I’m exhausted, too. You’re right. Let’s just go to bed.

Laurie Watson [00:15:44]:

God, I’d hate to have that argument with you, Joey, again.

George Faller [00:15:50]:

You can feel the frustration of it. Both people are rolling over.

Laurie Watson [00:15:54]:

He’s shutting down. And it’s like so angry. And I already feel that bad feeling of won’t even talk about it.

George Faller [00:16:02]:

Well, it’s the worst combination for a lot of sexual pursuers is they get rejected and then their partner wants them to process the damn feelings around it. It’s like, fuck, I don’t want to talk about these feelings now. It’s like now the avoidant comes out of me. I’m just angry and I want to go to bed and just be done, even though I’m probably going to roll over and be up for a while as my tapes start to play in my head. This is ridiculous what’s going on here. It’s bad for both of us. Both of us are rolling over, frustrated, hurt, and kind of really growing in mistrust of our partner.

Laurie Watson [00:16:37]:

Yeah, exactly.

George Faller [00:16:38]:

This is why not having sex is a threat to the relationship. When this continues to happen, there’s a reason why couples start initiating and 20% of couples are not having sex. They don’t want to feel this. So it gets easier and easier to avoid the negative. But in avoiding the negative, we also avoid the solution. Right. The very thing that brings two people together to join into one.

Laurie Watson [00:17:00]:

Yeah, exactly. I like that. So let’s do it the right way.

George Faller [00:17:07]:

I’m nervous. So, Jay, what are you thinking tonight’s? A good night or oh, Joey.

Laurie Watson [00:17:18]:

I want to be with you. Honey, I just am feeling tired tonight and it’s like I don’t even want to tell you. No, I mean, if you’re up for it, I’d probably be up for just a quickie, but it’s not my night. I mean, if you want to just do it, I’d love to do that with you, but I know sometimes when we talk about that, you get upset that you want me to want it and all that. So I don’t know. Could we do it Friday night where I don’t have anything going on on Saturday because I want to be with you? I know sometimes we have this conversation and you get the message that I’m rejecting you. It’s not you, Joey. I love you, think you’re attractive, want to be with you. What are you hearing?

George Faller [00:18:05]:

Honey, listen, if you really can follow through and bring it Friday night and kind of get excited about sex and it can be more than just a quickie, that would be great. I would love that. But a lot of times it feels like you say that and then Friday night something goes on with the kids, we got to go somewhere else. Then Friday night becomes the same as Wednesday night, and then I just get more and more frustrated.

Laurie Watson [00:18:32]:

Yeah, you’re absolutely right. That happens a lot that a neighbor calls or something and then we go to dinner or whatever. So I get it. I get that you’re right. Things come up in our life and then I disappoint you or you feel disappointed or like, I’ve lied to you about Friday night, and I know stuff comes up.

George Faller [00:18:54]:

You’re not trying to do it intentionally, but it’s like a pattern for us that we don’t prioritize this enough. And then it sets up that nasty dynamics where I get frustrated and critical, and then it puts more pressure on you. And I don’t want you. I love when you’re engaged because you want to engage. It really is so fun for me and you. I just want to figure out how to find more ways of doing that.

Laurie Watson [00:19:17]:

Thank you. Thank you for telling me that you don’t think it’s intentional, because it’s not intentional. But I do think you’re right that sometimes I let things get shoved in the way, some social event. And I guess I would just tell you that I will kind of carve that time out as sacred. I know this doesn’t appeal to you and hasn’t appealed to you in the past, but for me, I really would appreciate a time that I know is set aside for us for sex. Because I’ll take a nap, I’ll come home from work, and I’ll go lay down and rest so that I get my energy back or something. And then you can be sure that that night I’ll have enough energy to be engaged with you.

George Faller [00:20:05]:

For me, I think I’m coming around to your side.

Laurie Watson [00:20:09]:

For me, knowing that it’s coming, I can kind of get ready with my energy, and I think I need that right now. I’m just torn in so many directions. And I agree with you. I like it when I’m more engaged too. Although, again, I’m up for it tonight, if that’s what you want, as long as you know I got really low energy, and that’s okay with me sometimes. You don’t tend to believe me that it’s okay with me sometimes just to be with you. And I enjoy that. I like that. I don’t always have to have an orgasm. I don’t always have to be all excited. It’s still warm, it’s still tender. I still love all that.

George Faller [00:20:52]:

I’ve been listening to foreplay radio, so I’ve been picking up some pointers, and I do get you’re more receptive, and you don’t have this initiating drive that I have a lot of the time. So the mood has to be right to kind of help you. And that’s why I don’t want you to feel pressured. I used to think scheduling was, like, not romantic, but now I get no, it’s fun for me to think Friday night cool. Like, what are we going to do on Friday night that would be different on a Wednesday night when you’ve taken your nap and you’re kind of a little bit more excited and maybe you’re going to wear something or maybe I’m going to do a little dance for you. Just thinking about that for, like a couple of days is really fun for me too.

Laurie Watson [00:21:32]:

I’m getting over that. I think you’re a little dance. That’s the ticket for sure.

George Faller [00:21:39]:

I could show it to you now, but you’re tired, so it’s all right. We’re going to wait.

Laurie Watson [00:21:43]:

Okay, well, let’s wait. Nice. That feels a lot better.

George Faller [00:21:49]:

I think your openness to wanting to have sex when you have more energy I think is the key for me to hear. We’re not just defending our points and you’re just saying, well, this is what I did all day. That’s why I’m so tired. And I’m basically saying, well, if you didn’t do these other things, you’d have more energy and we get lost in the content. Instead know that problem solving. That saying when are you going to want sex for you? Right. So again, that Friday night really worked for me.

Laurie Watson [00:22:19]:

Are we still Joey and Jane or are we back to Laurie?

George Faller [00:22:22]:

Yeah, we’re just processing.

Laurie Watson [00:22:23]:

We’re just processing as Joey and Jane. I think that Joey.

George Faller [00:22:29]:

What?

Laurie Watson [00:22:30]:

When I say no to you and you feel rejected, that’s the thing I don’t want to do to you. Right. I want to be also true to myself about where I’m at physically, where I met emotionally with you and tonight it’s not an emotional thing. I don’t feel disconnected. It’s really a physical thing and I want to find ways so that you feel reassured about my commitment to our sex life and my commitment to you and my enjoyment of that.

George Faller [00:23:05]:

And it’s hard if there’s not, as Joey like the words that are trying to read you find me attractive. My head’s like bullshit. If you found me attractive, we’d be having sex. That is helpful, but that doesn’t get me over the edge. It’s actually the plan that we’re going to have sex, that you want to have sex and let’s do it Friday night. And that is what tells my nervous system. Okay, wait, this is important. This is something that’s going to happen.

Laurie Watson [00:23:34]:

When I said that, Joey, that I love you, I find you attractive, all that, it doesn’t go in. It doesn’t help, really.

George Faller [00:23:42]:

I mean, it helps. It starts the process. It’s like a gentle rubbing on my shoulder to calm my nervous system down, but it’s not going to get me.

Laurie Watson [00:23:53]:

Can we do that tonight? Can you rub my shoulders a little?

George Faller [00:23:58]:

Massage sounds good, but it always leads somewhere, right? A non sexual massage? No, but I think that’s why I like these role plays because sometimes you get a little bit clearer. The words are kind of helpful, but the evidence is in the actions. Right. You showing me you want to have sex is what I’m looking for. You saying you will have sex on Friday and you recognize that sometimes you get too busy and you’re going to make sure you’re not going to get too busy this Friday night. That gives me a lot of high degree of confidence that you’re going to follow through on this. So my nervous system is, you’re just going to have to wait a couple more days, but you’re going to get it and you’re going to get it in a more full, engaged way, which excites me. And I’m like, all right, I’m looking forward to that. So my energy can get redirected towards Friday night. If you don’t say anything about Friday night and you just say no, I love you, this is more about me, I’m working on this, I find you attractive, but we’ll figure this out. It leaves me nowhere with that energy.

Laurie Watson [00:24:57]:

I think to me, what I saw happen was the validation that indeed there is a pattern of an interruption where it doesn’t get prioritized. That seemed to relax you.

George Faller [00:25:11]:

Exactly. And I love that you are standing up for yourself. This is so important to be able to say no because you’re not in a mood, and then still be able to prioritize and figure out what would be a better setting for Jane to have more energy. Because if Jane just continues to go through quickies even though she’s not engaged and not in a mood, that is training Jane to not want to have sex.

Laurie Watson [00:25:38]:

OK, so now we’re back to Lori and George. Yeah, but I also know a lot of sexual male pursuers. They don’t accept the offer of a quickie or a more passive experience where they could at least have an orgasm. Maybe their body wouldn’t be so uptight. They’re very insistent on engagement, which I completely get. I completely get the desire for an engaged partner, trust me. But along the way, sometimes that could be a gift where they could at least feel physical release and relief.

George Faller [00:26:21]:

Exactly.

Laurie Watson [00:26:22]:

That might be good. I just think the worry is, I suppose, that they’re going to have just a person who lays there and thinks of England or something and is not enjoying it, or it’s always going to be that way. It’s going to create a pattern.

George Faller [00:26:38]:

I think the fear is if I do this quickie now, we just kick the can down the road another week. Right. If the quickie was followed up by Friday night, that would be a double win. That would be awesome. But the quickie usually means, all right, you check the box here.

Laurie Watson [00:26:53]:

You got it on Wednesday, buddy.

George Faller [00:26:55]:

You got on Wednesday. So now let’s wait for next Wednesday where the likely same thing is going to happen. So I do think just being able to talk about what makes a quickie not so fulfilling is the fear behind it, that it’s just going to lead to more. It’s a substitute and we’re not going to get the real thing that they’re looking for, which we both agree is the healthiest thing, both people who engaged. So this person who has low energy has good reasons, this person who’s frustrated with that has good reasons. What they can’t do is usually talk about it. So that’s what we’re just hoping we don’t have all the answers here, but we are just trying to open up a space to get people to address the elephant in the room.

Laurie Watson [00:27:33]:

Absolutely. I think for me, as Jane, when I began to see that it was really what he needed was the prioritization of know, and that I could do that. And usually as a woman, and I know this just as Lori, the women control often the social life of the family. Generally, we’re the ones who the neighbors invite over, the ones who our girlfriends call or whatever, and just saying, this has to change for Friday night. Although I would say Friday night not the best night. You’re dead from the week. Like, why not Saturday night? Because then Sunday is better. But if it’s going to be scheduled, I think setting that up it is.

George Faller [00:28:17]:

That prioritize, and it’s setting it up that you’re doing it. You’re initiating. Even if you would say, you know what? Saturday morning we have this window, the kids go to practice. I will be ready, waiting for you in that bedroom. You’re given what’s missing, which is that engagement. You’re just postponing it a bit, right. And that’s enough to make that pursuer feel like, okay, that thirst is being met.

Laurie Watson [00:28:42]:

Yeah, exactly. Okay. Thanks for listening.

George Faller [00:28:47]:

Stay awake, baby.

Joe Davis – Announcer [00:28:49]:

Call in your questions to the Foreplay question voicemail dial eight three my. Foreplay. That’s eight three three my. The number four play, and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.

Speaker Ads [00:29:12]:

Hi, I’m Sarah May, and I’m the host of your new favorite show, help Me, Be Me. It’s a self help podcast for people who hate self help. Help Me, Be Me is full of practical tools to help you overcome a variety of emotional challenges delivered in a way that’s caring but frank. So if that sounds up your alley, I would invite you to check out Help Me, Be Me on the iheart app app on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks.