Laurie Watson [00:00:00]:

The people’s choice. Podcast awards are out. You guys, it’s the 18th annual People’s Choice Podcast Awards, and we need your vote. We are in it right now under the health section. That’s podcastawards.com. You go on register, please vote for foreplay. We would love your support. Thank you so much. This would really help us spread our mission if we can get recognized in the podcast Awards for the People’s Choice.

Joe Davis – Announcer [00:00:24]:

The follow following content is not suitable for children.

Laurie Watson [00:00:27]:

Okay. Are we just catching up with each other? So exciting to talk, or is it just checking in with the basics and seeing how we’re going? What’s going on in life? What’s the difference? Welcome to foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller [00:00:47]:

And I’m George Faller, your couple’s therapist.

Laurie Watson [00:00:50]:

We are here to talk about sex.

George Faller [00:00:52]:

Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind, and their hearts, and.

Laurie Watson [00:01:00]:

We have a little bit of fun doing it right.

George Faller [00:01:02]:

G. Listen and let’s change some relationships. So excited. Laurie, another in person training. Philadelphia unleashing the power of sex and EFT for therapists. October 4 and October 5. This is one of our favorite trainings to do. It’s such a need out there to empower therapists, to keep their focus better in session and know how to help couples facilitate these bonding conversations through sex. Most of us don’t grow up in families talking about this stuff, so get some of the tools that you need. Have some fun. Engage with other therapists. It’s great to be back in person.

Laurie Watson [00:01:39]:

Oh, yes. It is so great to be in person. We had so much fun in our last in person training. I mean, people actually laugh at our jokes. And I got to say, some of what we’re doing, I think it’s pretty cutting edge. We’re working on stage one and stage two. For those of you who are therapists and EFT, you’ll get what we’re talking about. But even if you’re not an EFT therapist, there’s a lot here that you can learn about how to talk with couples about sex and how to become more expert at it.

George Faller [00:02:07]:

And if you’re a listener and you do have a therapist and your therapist doesn’t know about EFT, tell them. You know what? I think you should check this training out. I guarantee they’ll come out of that training with some new tools, which is that’s what we’re in the business of, right? Creating change with new tools.

Laurie Watson [00:02:22]:

Yes. So come join us in October in Philadelphia.

George Faller [00:02:27]:

Men and women are so complicated, aren’t they, Laurie?

Laurie Watson [00:02:30]:

They are so complicated, for sure. Men are complicated.

George Faller [00:02:35]:

That’s true. Women are just so simple, elegant, and perfect and always right.

Laurie Watson [00:02:44]:

That’s right.

George Faller [00:02:45]:

Yeah. I think this is typically a gender thing. I was working with a couple where they’re having this conversation, and the wife, when she talks to her girlfriends, it goes all over the place. The conversation. They really are checking in. There’s no agenda. It’s free flowing. They’re like riffing. Right. And these musicians, you can start talking about the kids, and it leads to this show that they love and this food that they’re cooking, and it’s all over the place. Right. And it’s so playful and it’s so engaging and it’s so I mean, you can just see, as the wife was describing to me, just, like, how alive she feels in these conversations.

Laurie Watson [00:03:29]:

Yeah.

George Faller [00:03:30]:

And then she talks about what she does with her husband, which is so different. It’s a checking in. A checking in. It’s schedule, it’s logistics, it’s partnering. It’s the stuff that needs to happen in a relationship. But there’s an agenda. There’s a linear way of kind of progressing through the list of things to be discussed. There’s more of a seriousness to it, which is very different than the playfulness of the other one.

Laurie Watson [00:04:01]:

Oh, yeah. I hear that, like, men want you to get to the bullet points. What’s important?

George Faller [00:04:10]:

How was your day? I did this, I did that, I did this. Which is different. When my wife says, how’s your day? She’s not really wanting the report of what’s happening. She’s just wanting to talk about whatever the heck I want to talk about, and it will lead to whatever heck she wants to talk about, and then it could bounce all over the place. But again, I think this is often where couples can miss each other.

Laurie Watson [00:04:35]:

I think that’s so true. I’m getting together with four of my girlfriends well, three other girlfriends, and we’re planning a trip to Asheville. And, oh, my know, we’re already excited about what we’re going to talk about, and we’re going to talk for hours. We’re probably going to stay up all night just talking because we haven’t seen each other for about a year. And so it’s just this sense of I don’t have any worry or pressure that I’m going to talk too much or that they’re going to be bored with what I’m saying or that there’s any agenda whatsoever. It’s just like, we’re just going to get together and it’s going to be fun. Whereas I think sometimes with men, it’s like, you got to stay on track, you got to stay focused. Don’t let I mean, how many times have we talked, George, and we’re trying know, think about episodes, and you’re like, well, don’t bring that in yet, Laurie. Don’t bring that know, it’s like, you want me focused, you want me on the same subject, whereas my brain could go to three other really great ideas, and you’re like, no.

George Faller [00:05:52]:

Well, there’s value to both. Right? It’s the balance of both. I love when we go out socially. You’re like, you could work the room. You can just kind of bounce around and talk about a million different things. But let’s not pathologize to focus. There’s nothing really important.

Laurie Watson [00:06:12]:

I want to hear that compliment that I can work the room again.

George Faller [00:06:17]:

I think that’s the gifting of the catching up, right? To not have an agenda, to be in the moment, to enjoy wherever the person is at that you’re with.

Laurie Watson [00:06:27]:

Yeah.

George Faller [00:06:28]:

The evidence is in the affect, right. When two people are smiling and you can see they’re really interested in what each other is saying, that’s a win. I always try to learn that from people that are good at that. I’m like, I got to let go of some of this focus and the agenda sometimes. And the flip side of the coin, if you do that all day, you’re going to wind up in a loony bin. I mean, the world has to go on. Things need to get done, being able to keep your focus. But I think guys can do this with other guys. I’ve never talked about this, so I’m just sitting here saying, that’s interesting. There’s a problem doing it across gender. But when guys are just hanging out with guys, it’s similar, right? It’s like they’re teasing each other, they’re joking around, conversations going all over the place. It does feel like that catching up, especially you haven’t seen somebody in a little bit. It’s not so agenda driven. Like a lot of these, it seems like that’s what happens with partners, right? In a couple, somehow the relationships all start to skew in a direction of constantly checking in. Let’s see what we have to talk about, what we need to do, what we need to, and they lose the element of that catching up. So I think that would be pretty cool to figure out. How can couples carve out more time for that between each other?

Laurie Watson [00:07:44]:

I get that. The other thing that came to my mind, since we’re talking about free flow and little lack of focus, is checking in. What I first thought of when I read your blurb here was I think that women also check in to take the emotional temperature of their partner. How are you? What happened today? They’re also checking in emotionally, like testing. I don’t know. Are you okay? Are we okay? Are you in a good mood? Are we going to be able to have sex tonight?

George Faller [00:08:21]:

That’s on the agenda. See that? There’s an agenda. A loose agenda.

Laurie Watson [00:08:25]:

Loose agenda.

George Faller [00:08:27]:

No, but again, it’s a bid for connection to checking in. It’s not about the tasks. It’s about really connecting in that moment. And a lot of times the checking in is about the tasks. It’s not about connecting. I’m sure you can do both, but you have to be more intentional, like we’re talking about here.

Laurie Watson [00:08:50]:

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George Faller [00:09:19]:

I was working with another couple. Again, I think it highlights this point when we talk about the high road, the middle road, the low road. The high road being that great sex and dates and fun and vacations. The good stuff in a relationship.

Laurie Watson [00:09:32]:

The middle, laughing, getting drunk on Bourbon Street, all that nice fun thing.

George Faller [00:09:38]:

We all need that in our life. The middle road is more this check. It in the logistics, the partner and the dishes, taking the kids, all the stuff that needs to make a life function. And the low road is around our vulnerabilities, our insecurities, our struggles, being able to kind of couples that do all three well have the greatest relationships. But a lot of couples that we work with, they really struggle on the low road. They didn’t grow up in families knowing how to talk about their hurts or insecurities. They keep it to themselves. It creates a lot of distance. So a lot of the work we do as therapists is really try to help couples meet on the low road, see the value in kind of being there. A lot of times you can’t fix these things, but you can make a choice to face it together or to be alone with it. So it’s kind of like this catching up, right. It’s like making a choice to be present. So it really struck me, the couple came in and the wife said to me, she said, George, when we come here, I look forward to these sessions all week. It’s like date nightly for me. I know they’re in this. If you’re going to ask some questions, you’re going to help me know myself and you’re going to help my partner know me in ways that we don’t normally ever do. This jazzes me up. Her body is longing to kind of go on this low road and just be present.

Laurie Watson [00:10:57]:

Yeah.

George Faller [00:10:58]:

He has a different like George. Well, to me it’s more like going to the dentist. I know it’s good for me. I’m glad I’m learning how to do more of this low road. I usually feel better after the session, but I don’t come into this feeling like it’s date night. Right. Because he’s coming in more from this checking in kind of like, this is what I need to do. It’s still performance, it’s still a job. I’m trying to fix things where she’s coming into it with this date night approach, like, I can’t wait to learn more about myself. You can see how they’re having two very different experiences of that same session. Yeah.

Laurie Watson [00:11:31]:

And learn more about her partner, probably because you get him to talk and so that would be really exciting.

George Faller [00:11:40]:

Yeah. I guess we got to do better with this catching up kind of thing.

Laurie Watson [00:11:47]:

I agree. I think there is so much time spent in a marriage just having to do the basic communication, especially when you have children at home and all that, you’re going 16 different directions, and it’s hard it’s hard to coordinate all that. I think, though, there’s probably times when both partners relax and just start talking, but if they could be a little more intentional about building those times was last night was a beautiful summer night in North Carolina, and we were making dinner, and we had had a steak out. Yeah, it was really good.

George Faller [00:12:34]:

Derek makes some good steaks.

Laurie Watson [00:12:36]:

He does make good steaks. And so, you know, we had salted it and all this, and I think he kind of wanted to go back to work while we were waiting for the steak to get seasoned. And I’m like, let’s just go out on the patio. It’s so beautiful. We can sit by our garden. We can have some wine. And he’s like and there is just this resistance, like, what?

George Faller [00:12:59]:

I got to check some emails. I got to make sure I send this to Bill out.

Laurie Watson [00:13:03]:

We got 20 minutes, so let’s go do the things we got to get done and then come back and make dinner and be done. Yeah, I was just like, no, let’s go do that thing. And I think there’s probably pressure with all the tasks of the day that he was feeling. I get that. And I actually had a ton of work, too, but it was dusk, and I wanted a break. I wanted to be together and chitchat and talk.

George Faller [00:13:31]:

Yeah, that’s the beauty of catching up. And I listened. A lot of women get caught up in their lists too. Oh, my gosh. Wanting to check in and go through the logistics and all that stuff. And again, we’re not pathologizing that it’s critically important. You can’t run a family or a life without kind of being able to partner well and do all of that stuff, but I think some of us can over rely on that, and we miss this critical piece know? I almost look at it like, O MH.

Laurie Watson [00:14:05]:

What’s OMH a George acronym surprise.

George Faller [00:14:08]:

George acronym surprise.

Laurie Watson [00:14:10]:

What’s an O-M-H?

George Faller [00:14:12]:

No. O-H-M. Isn’t that something? Ohm. Isn’t that mean something?

Laurie Watson [00:14:17]:

Ohm.

George Faller [00:14:18]:

Ohm. It does what I call open heart moments. How do you have these open heart moments with your partner? You got all the logistics, but an open heart moment is like, I’m present with you, and I’m walking in your shoes, and I’m feeling what you’re feeling, and we’re coming together in this moment around whatever it is. So let’s come back and talk about more Ohm moments. Okay.

Laurie Watson [00:14:46]:

Ohm. Cannonballs. Hey, y’all. This summer is not about the size of those cannonballs. It’s about making a splash with our friends at Manscaped prep for that barbecue season by making your grill master the hottest dogs in the summer ever seen. When you’re at the cookout, let the meat speak for itself. With MANSCAPED’s Performance package 40, it’s time to get ready and not sweaty by going to Manscaped.com and using our Code Foreplay for 20% off and free shipping. Their Lawnmower 40 trimmer features a cutting edge ceramic blade to reduce grooming accidents. Thanks to their advanced SkinSafe technology, now you can feel safe wearing that low cut swimsuit with no stragglers peeking out.

George Faller [00:15:38]:

That’s right, man. You don’t want all your hair popping out all over those shorts.

Laurie Watson [00:15:43]:

Get yourself trimmed up and use that Manscape liquid. Basically the Ball freshness version of cracking open a cold one. You’ve got the crop preserver ball deodorant. Yes, I am saying ball deodorant. Okay, so get 20% off and free shipping with the Code [email protected]. That’s 20% off and free [email protected]. And use the code foreplay. Manscape the perfect way to get your Patties Sizzling hot this summer. We are doing a couple’s retreat on September eigth, so please keep that in mind in your schedule. For your fall schedule, we want to give you a heads up. We’re only doing one this year because our training schedule is getting crazy, but we would love to invite you to our couples retreat on September Eigth. It’s by Zoom, and you can find it on our website. Fourplacextherapy.com.

George Faller [00:16:34]:

Nice. And we just completed Training therapists two days. Right on. Sex. Had over 100 therapists. How much fun was that, Laurie, to just kind of, again, get all these questions. We don’t have all the answers, but we’re just again, that excitement is just trying to help us all get clear and clear and start leaning in this direction because it’s such a great need to help couples talk about their sex.

Laurie Watson [00:16:55]:

Was it was really fun and we’re excited to do it again for our couples. We always have fun with people who are wanting to work on their sex life and come to us. They’re always anxious, what is it going to look like? And I’m glad to email you a little bit about that talk with you so you can get comfy.

George Faller [00:17:14]:

Nice. And who don’t want to be comfy? All right. Laurie another acronym. I can’t help myself. That’s logical. Focus brain. I can’t help myself.

Laurie Watson [00:17:27]:

Numbers and acronyms.

George Faller [00:17:29]:

Yeah.

Laurie Watson [00:17:31]:

G in numbers and acronyms.

George Faller [00:17:33]:

I’m working on that’s why I’m talking about catching up and trying to let go of these things. The ohm allows me to say, hey, put aside the agenda. My wife wants to talk about something that’s bothering her instead of kind of wanting to fix it and get frustrated in this moment. How can I just be her and be frustrated with her? Because it’s an intimate moment. It really gets to know a part of her that probably I won’t if I rush past it. It’s not just the worry if you lean into the worry, if the fear is saying something might happen, if something would happen. If you lean into that, you can see the ripple effect. A lot of these things I’ll be letting people down I won’t like myself. There’s so many layers to kind of these vulnerable moments that you need to give it time to listen to it. Right. And there’s a beautiful opportunity in listening to it because you’re getting to know your partner in a way you wouldn’t if you didn’t have this anxiety. So a lot of couples that learn how to be present with each other in those moments, it’s such intimacy. Right. And what does it feel like to have somebody know you in that way? Yeah, we all want to be known and seen and understood. And so often it’s through these negative emotions that couples can learn to open up their heart and do it with each other.

Laurie Watson [00:18:58]:

So you’re saying sometimes when we’re catching up, what can happen is vulnerability and open heart moments. And it could also be just talking about difficult things inside. Maybe that’s part of the resistance. Maybe in a male withdrawal, it’s like, oh, if I do an open heart moment, there might be things that it gets emotional, and then I could be failing, I could be in trouble. She might turn her attention to the things she doesn’t like about us, and then we’re having a state of the relationship conversation. It just slides downhill.

George Faller [00:19:37]:

Yeah. And we can make that choice. If my wife wants to talk about some frustration she’s having with a friend and I’m in this kind of checking in mode, it’s like, I know I need to let her vent, but I’m not really being impacted by her vent. I’ll be like, yeah, babe, that sucks. Anyway, what are we doing with the kids? I check the box and I move on to the thing that’s more relevant to me or what’s next? Right. That’s a logistical kind of exchange. It’s not an open moment open heart moment for me to take a moment and say, Wait a second. Let me feel what it’s like for her when this happens with her friend. And when I allow that to happen for a moment, it’s like, oh, shit. Because not only does that moment suck, but you’re supposed to go away with her next week. Oh, yeah, okay. And then the kids, you start to see that there’s a spider web that goes so many places. No wonder why she wants a sounding board to make sense of this, because it impacts her in a great way, and she’s bringing it up because she wants to not face that alone. And a lot of times, my brain doesn’t see the invitation to connect because my logistical brain just says, yeah, I’m sorry, move on. And we don’t have to be perfect. But I do think if you’re looking for moments for these open heart moments, you could find them sprinkled throughout a day. And every once in a while, take a moment and resist the urge to kind of move along the agenda and just stay curious and be like, Whoa. Tell me a little bit more about this frustration, right? And by telling me a little bit more, I mean, like, I want to walk in your shoes and feel you. It’s amazing what that can do for the relationship.

Laurie Watson [00:21:29]:

So true. I am also aware that sometimes as a woman, like, I can call a girlfriend and there can be no preamble. I don’t have to explain why I’m calling. I can just dump what I’m concerned about, like, boom, like a good friend. I can just start right there. But maybe what happens in partnership if you just start with the catching up and you got to tell all this stuff, it’s like your partner isn’t yet oriented to that. That’s what is going to happen.

George Faller [00:22:05]:

I like it.

Laurie Watson [00:22:06]:

So maybe they need a little bit of checking in. Hey, let’s clear the decks. And by the way, I got to vent about this too. Do you have some space for that? Like, narrating what we’re needing and what is happening inside of us. So our partner is aware then of how to respond and what we need from them.

George Faller [00:22:26]:

So let me repeat this because I think it’s so important. So all you men out there listening and all you women that men really do need a preamble. Often they need to engage their logical brain to tell them what you want the focus to be. So for you to be able to say, hey, listen, this is not one of those checking in moments. I don’t really need to go down that road. This is a catching up moment. I really need that open heart helping their brain focus on the mission. Right? That’s what a logical, linear brain wants to do. It’s like, all right, you don’t just need to vent. You actually need me to be curious and walk in your shoes. I can do that if I tell my brain to do that. But if you don’t give me a chance to make a choice, it’s probably just going to default to what it normally does, which is problem solve. Give a little bit of advice and move on to the next thing, because I don’t really want to spend a lot of time thinking about worries and negativity.

Laurie Watson [00:23:24]:

Right?

George Faller [00:23:25]:

So that preamble invites me to make a choice that normally I don’t make a choice because I go to my default settings. So I love that you’re encouraging couples to just be more intentional around this.

Laurie Watson [00:23:38]:

Talking about it first. I think that is so important. And I have a girlfriend recently, and I was talking about how she can talk to her partner about something, and I was like, you got to let them know not, hey, I need to talk, because that’s like, the worst thing that you can say to a man.

George Faller [00:23:57]:

But just, I need to talk in bed. A good preamble.

Laurie Watson [00:24:03]:

I like, can we go to bed and talk for a little bit.

George Faller [00:24:09]:

Without clothes, but just no distractions?

Laurie Watson [00:24:12]:

Can we go to bed naked and talk for a little bit and then have sex? There we go.

George Faller [00:24:20]:

We’re getting clearer and clearer here, Laurie. I’m glad we’re figuring things out.

Laurie Watson [00:24:24]:

That would be a good preamble, right? You would encourage women to use that preamble?

George Faller [00:24:29]:

Well, I’m not going to say no to that one. Well, we’re having fun, but the importance of kind of helping people hit the target and kind of know what you want, I mean, you have to be clear. I think a lot of times women start a conversation frustrated, not talking about why they’re frustrated, and a lot of times men feel it’s coming directed towards them, and it’s like they have a lot of experience wanting to get out of those conversations, and it’s just a set up for both of them. So couples aren’t going to get this perfectly, but it’s good to be able to repair afterwards. Maybe the wife comes the next day and says, you know what? I’m sorry I didn’t do a preamble. I came on so fast, I started kind of dumping on how frustrated I was. And I can imagine if I had a camera of that, that probably might be pretty intimidating to you as you’re like, can you believe she did it again? I mean, I don’t even know how to put up with this stuff. And it’s like, immediately that guy’s brain wants to calm that down and be like, whoa, hold on a second. I don’t want to hold on a second. I mean, this is what no one wants to live. And it’s like, boom. You can see how quickly this thing just escalates.

Laurie Watson [00:25:36]:

Blows up. Yeah. Blows up.

George Faller [00:25:40]:

And a lot of men have had that experience because they try to minimize and they try to calm it down. And that’s not what the wife, who’s sharing, is looking for validation. Right. But then it gets directed towards the husband. And this is why the husband doesn’t want to do this, because they faller so many times in these conversations and they’ve learned to just not want to do it. It’s a self fulfilling prophecy. So I do think it’s helpful for you to say what you want and get my brain ready to try to give it to you.

Laurie Watson [00:26:10]:

Yeah.

George Faller [00:26:10]:

Because the good news is, in a love relationship, men do want to give their partner open heart moments.

Laurie Watson [00:26:18]:

So true. And I think we want to set men up for success. And I think, honestly, I would love catching up moments from my partner, too. Yeah. I want him to sometimes come and dump, too.

George Faller [00:26:35]:

Absolutely.

Laurie Watson [00:26:36]:

Yeah.

George Faller [00:26:37]:

And I think the more success men have and knowing what to do in these moments, the easier it is to then start asking for it, too. And, yes, that is what love does. It’s reciprocal both ways for a guy to see the value in saying, hey, I had a hard day and I’d love to have a sounding board to experience what it’s like to have someone else be curious with you, to help you find your words for these places that oftentimes you just endure alone. And that’s a sign of courage, right? To learn how to let people in, as opposed to just hiding in those places in yourself. So amen to that one, Laurie.

Laurie Watson [00:27:12]:

Yeah, absolutely. So, catching up or checking in, we got to narrate what we want, tell each other what we’re looking for. Just be aware that our partner may not know. They might have a different agenda. We got to tell them what we want, and then we get to those lovely open heart moments.

George Faller [00:27:32]:

We do better getting on the same page and being on opposite sides, right?

Laurie Watson [00:27:36]:

Absolutely. So thanks for listening.

George Faller [00:27:38]:

Keep it hot with those open heart moments.

Laurie Watson [00:27:41]:

I would love to invite you. This is women only, but we are having a retreat in Asheville on November 10 through the twelveTH, and it’s going to be a slumber party. And so we’re going to all stay together in the same cabin. It’s a beautiful space, and we’re going to have meals brought in and made, and we know who the chef is, and so it’s going to be wonderful. Maybe drink a little bit of wine if you’d like to, and we have kind of some talks and time to work together on your sexuality. So the whole goal of this women’s sexuality retreat, the slumber party, is to basically enhance and develop yourself, your erotic self inside. So we’re going to be talking about anatomy and physiology and sexual attachment. We’re going to talk through blocks. What stops us? What are the breaks against our sexual expression, and then what are our gas pedals? What are our turn ons? How do we open up more sexually, like with enhanced sexual pleasure? And we’re going to talk about orgasms and roleplay and using joys and fantasies and some stuff. And each night we’re going to have a pajama party where we just relax and sit around and talk on the deck and hang out together. And then on Sunday morning, we’re going to set our focus and have concrete steps toward sexual engagement with our partners.

George Faller [00:29:04]:

Sounds pretty awesome. Lori and all the men. Don’t worry about it. Maybe we’ll have like a Spartan camp out somewhere, have a couple of beers, and we’ll do our own version of that someday.

Laurie Watson [00:29:16]:

That would be great. So, love to invite you. I will post it on foreplaysextherapy.com under resources, and there will be the retreat, the scheduling events, and you can link and figure out if you can make it with us on November 10 through the twelveTH in 2023 Asheville. Be there.

Joe Davis – Announcer [00:29:37]:

Call in your questions to the Foreplay question voicemail dial eight three three my. Foreplay. That’s eight three three my. The number four play and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not. Be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.

Speaker Ads [00:30:00]:

Hi, I’m Sarah May, and I’m the host of your new favorite show, help Me, Be Me. It’s a self help podcast for people who hate self help. Help Me, Be Me is full of practical tools to help you overcome a variety of emotional challenges delivered in a way that’s caring but frank. So if that sounds up your alley, I would invite you to check out Help Me, Be Me on the iheart app on Apple podcasts or or wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks.