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The following content is not suitable for children.

George Faller [00:01:30]:

Let’s talk about fetishes. What turns you on, baby?

Laurie Watson [00:01:35]:

Ooh. Let’s talk about fetishes.

George Faller [00:01:38]:

Ooh. She said it better than I did.

Laurie Watson [00:01:42]:

Welcome to Foreplay sex Therapy. I’m Dr. Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller [00:01:47]:

And I’m George Faller, your couple’s therapist.

Laurie Watson [00:01:49]:

We are here to talk about sex.

George Faller [00:01:51]:

Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind, and their hearts.

Laurie Watson [00:01:59]:

And we have a little bit of fun doing it. Right, G?

George Faller [00:02:02]:

Listen, and let’s change some relationships.

George Faller [00:02:05]:

So, Dr. Laurie, sex experts, I mean, what is it about these fetishes?

Laurie Watson [00:02:10]:

Yeah, so a fetish is kind of something that is an object or a part of a body that turns people on sexually, that it’s not actually a turn on about a person or your partner, but it’s this other thing. So I had a professor once who, he was trying to explain fetishes, and he said, I pet my cat, and my cat arches its back, and I get an erection, and it’s kind of like this. He was trying to normalize that. Lots of crazy things that we wouldn’t think turn us on, do turn us on. And it was kind of this fetish, and I’ve certainly worked with people with fetishes. One person had a diaper fetish and wanted to wear diapers to work and wanted to have sex in a wet diaper and all this stuff, and he didn’t know where it came from. But it turned out when he was four years old, his mother was hospitalized in a psychiatric hospital right when his baby sister was born. And of course, the baby sister got all the attention.

Laurie Watson [00:03:17]:

And somehow or another, he kind of got a hold of the fact that diapers were what got you attention and care. And then as he grew up and that kind of became eroticized, he transferred his sexual feelings to diapers. All kinds of things.

George Faller [00:03:37]:

Is that called paraphilic infantilism, where they come up with these words?

Laurie Watson [00:03:44]:

Very good.

George Faller [00:03:44]:

Or autonom? I mean, wow, they got some wild things out here. This podcast continues to educate me, Laurie. I feel like playing stump to sex therapist, and I could just try to mispronounce some of these words and let’s see if you can come up with pronounce them. No. If you even know what they are. How about that?

Laurie Watson [00:04:06]:

I don’t know if I know what they all are.

George Faller [00:04:08]:

I’m going to take five. We’re going to give you five of them, and let’s see how many you get out of five.

Laurie Watson [00:04:13]:

Okay? Let’s see how many I miss. Probably all of them.

George Faller [00:04:17]:

Acrotomophilia.

Laurie Watson [00:04:20]:

Have no idea.

George Faller [00:04:21]:

All right. It’s a sexual arousal towards amputees. Okay, all right, I’m still in the A’s. You know about bondage. You ever heard of this one?

George Faller [00:04:37]:

Coulrophilia

Laurie Watson [00:04:38]:

I have not.

George Faller [00:04:40]:

Being turned on by clowns.

Laurie Watson [00:04:43]:

Oh, that is really scary. That is really scary. We just had Halloween. That is scary.

George Faller [00:04:50]:

This one. Wow. Emet Ophelia. E-M-E-T.

Laurie Watson [00:04:57]:

Turned on by vomit. Is that right?

George Faller [00:04:59]:

Oh, here we go. Dr. Laurie’s in the scoring column.

Laurie Watson [00:05:03]:

My Latin came in handed exhibition. Oh, yeah. Wanting people to see us.

George Faller [00:05:11]:

Foot fetish. We got to talk more about that.

Laurie Watson [00:05:14]:

Okay, well, that’s what we’re going to talk about today, because we got a Q and A from a person who just discovered that their partner had a foot fetish.

George Faller [00:05:22]:

All right, how about Katoptronophilia? K top tronphilia?

Laurie Watson [00:05:32]:

What is it?

George Faller [00:05:33]:

Mirrors.

Laurie Watson [00:05:35]:

Mirrors. I really like mirrors. Okay.

George Faller [00:05:40]:

Lactophilia.

Laurie Watson [00:05:41]:

Fun. Something about milk. Breast milk.

George Faller [00:05:45]:

Breast milk, yeah. Necrophilia.

Laurie Watson [00:05:50]:

Yeah. Turned on by dead people.

George Faller [00:05:52]:

She’s on a roll. Look, Dr. Laurie’s on a roll.

Laurie Watson [00:05:54]:

Spooky, spooky.

George Faller [00:05:56]:

Public sex, pregnancy. You know most of these. All right, I think last one. Somnophilia.

Laurie Watson [00:06:09]:

So is this. When people have sex in their sleep.

George Faller [00:06:14]:

They’Re attracted by someone who’s sleeping or unconscious?

Laurie Watson [00:06:20]:

Another scary one, right?

George Faller [00:06:22]:

I lied. I said there’s one more Europhilia.

Laurie Watson [00:06:29]:

Sex with about pee play. Golden Showers.

George Faller [00:06:32]:

Golden Showers. There it is.

Laurie Watson [00:06:34]:

Yeah. Okay. I knew a few of them.

George Faller [00:06:37]:

You knew most of them? Good job, Dr. Laurie.

Laurie Watson [00:06:41]:

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George Faller [00:09:04]:

I remember going to Amsterdam, and it was like I was, what, 21, 22 years old? And I was like, a culture shock. I was walking down the street, seeing the red light district, seeing all these magazines and videos, people pooping on each other, pissing on each other. I was like, what the hell? Food, play, every kind of thing. I was like, my poor young development brain was not ready for what it saw in that place.

Laurie Watson [00:09:33]:

What were you doing in Amsterdam at 21?

George Faller [00:09:35]:

I was going for a bachelor party, so I was a police officer. Bachelor party. I don’t know if that was a great dramatized. No, it was a good time. But again, I think there’s so many different things out there that. And I would imagine most people that have a fetish are pretty embarrassed of it or try to keep it secret and let’s just try to normalize. Like, what is it about? How do people talk about it?

Laurie Watson [00:10:05]:

I don’t think everybody’s embarrassed by it. I think some fetishes are probably a little more mainstream than others. I think, obviously, from my vantage point, the difficulty is when one party finds it gross or freaky or is freaked out about it, and the other person, this is who they are. This is how they grew up. This has kind of always been with them, and they are trying to let their partner in on it. Maybe they’re trying to incorporate it into their sexual repertoire, or maybe they are okay with it just being part of themselves. But, I mean, as we know, right, almost anything can freak our partner out. We’re all worried about being considered sex freaks.

Laurie Watson [00:10:54]:

Or maybe some of us are worried about that. Maybe not all of us.

George Faller [00:10:59]:

I don’t know. I’m hoping you could help me. It does seem to be often when I’m working with couples, the partner who doesn’t have the fetish could often feel threatened by the fetish because the person seems more interested in that than the partner, I guess. Cool. Like, if you’re into feet, you’re into feet. But when I start finding pictures of feet and it feels like there’s a deeper connection to some of the fetishes, that it almost like a competing attachment. Like, you’d really rather have this than me. And so often we’re trying to help couples sexually be more present, increase levels of engagement, focus on more than just the physiological.

George Faller [00:11:47]:

Right. Focus on the emotional, spiritual. And it almost seems like there’s a detachment in some of these fetishes. Am I off with that?

Laurie Watson [00:11:57]:

No, you’re right. I think this is where fetishes can become problematic. When the partner feels depersonalized, like you, like my feet, but you don’t really want me. And I knew a guy who had a shoe fetish. I worked with him, and it didn’t really matter who the woman was that was wearing the shoes. He just really got turned on by shoes. But his partner was know, I really want you to be turned on by me. I want you to want me.

Laurie Watson [00:12:28]:

And so there was a disconnect. Sometimes I don’t think people have as much control, George, over what turns them on. This turns them on. I think we have a better chance at enlarging their pattern of arousal than we do at blocking off something that did turn them on. I mean, obviously there are illegal things that turn people on that we all recognize as Dangerous children. We recognize that as dangerous to our society. So how do we get somebody like that to not act on it and turn off this arousal pattern or turn it down and switch over to an adult pattern that is going to bring them fulfillment and secure attachment on all that? I’m probably not the sex therapist that says everything goes, and I am very concerned about people getting connected and feeling attached to each other, but I probably think some fetishes are more easily incorporated than others.

George Faller [00:13:33]:

Well, we’re saying that with all couples who are trying to expand their palate, right. That increases levels of engagement. I like that language that how do you just not make it all about this and find lots of ways of expressing your sexual self? But I guess my question is, a lot of people probably try to turn off those fetishes. Can you kind of free that energy up into other areas or it feels like it’s almost this energetic thing for people, and if they’re going to lose it, they lose a part of who they are. Can that get rechanneled or if they find healthier, not healthier, but if they find different ways, more expansive ways, it becomes more interpersonal versus more interpersonal ways.

Laurie Watson [00:14:23]:

To feel sexual arousal. I mean, I think that’s the issue in partnership. Can they be sexually attracted to and.

George Faller [00:14:31]:

Aroused by their partner so they can rechannel it? If you want, if you have.

Laurie Watson [00:14:38]:

I think about it as more like expansion. I mean, I think all of us, right, we have sexual energy that’s tied to something that maybe we don’t want to be directed at. Like if somebody’s walking down the street and they see an attractive other, that kind of gives them a sexual charge, but they’re not going to go ahead and try to pick that person up if they’re married or go for that person. So how do they take that sexual charge, bring it home and make use of it in a direction that is going to be fulfilling to them and their partner? Yeah, I think it’s like taking captive the energy and maybe it is redirecting. I don’t think all fetishes are harmFul, and I don’t think necessarily they need to be redirected. Sometimes they can exist in parallel with an experience of excitement about your partner? A lot of times, yeah, this turns me on, and this is kind of different. It’s not about my partner, but my partner turns me on.

George Faller [00:15:42]:

I love the word expansion. I grew up with guys. One friend’s a boob guy, the other guy’s an ass guy. I mean, we have things that turn us on like that more so than other parts. But again, if we limit the sexual encounter to just that, we lose so much. This is about expansion. Right. I think if the partner can get on board and get excited, but just not make that their sex life.

George Faller [00:16:09]:

I mean, again, that’s the balance. That’s why you need to communicate. And I think so many couples, this is where they fail to communicate. Right.

Laurie Watson [00:16:17]:

I think you’re kind of saying something that I feel like some people look at porn a lot. Is that a fetish? Not really, but it isn’t their partner. How do they take that energy and actually make it interpersonal? Or do they start to prefer this other thing that doesn’t really enhance the sexual relationship with their partner? That’s my concern. That’s my only concern as a couple’s therapist and as a sex therapist is how do we bring it so that it enlivens, brings love and more security between two people.

George Faller [00:16:55]:

Yeah, I guess we’ll come back from after break. I almost feel like for some people, there’s a compulsivity to the fetish, that there’s such a strong pull to it that really does pull them out of the engagement or the interpersonal connection. And that’s where it becomes threatening to the bond. Right. We don’t really care what your fetish is, what you turned on, what adults consent to do and agree to do. We’re not here to judge. We’re just trying to say, is this something that enhances the sex, or is it something that detracts from the sex? And that’s really up for each partner to decide.

Laurie Watson [00:17:28]:

Well, let’s come back and talk about a question from one of our listeners.

Laurie Watson [00:17:37]:

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Laurie Watson [00:20:27]:

Okay, George, I’ve got a question about a foot fetish that a listener recently discovered. And she writes in and says, I’m happily married to the man of my dreams. And she said she’s a little bit more of the sexual pursuer, but both of them are in a positive cycle sexually and emotionally. So they got a good thing going on here. They married a little bit later, and she said recently she was looking through some photos of their house. She asked her husband if he still had any on his phone. He wasn’t sure, but he tossed her the phone. And accidentally, she stumbles onto some pictures that she doesn’t understand, and she scrolls down and finds that there are very explicit pictures of her own feet, like having taken a picture of her on the couch or on the bed and on the beach.

Laurie Watson [00:21:24]:

And then there were other women’s pictures, too, that were very sexually explicit. And she said she kind of sat down in shock.

George Faller [00:21:31]:

How are feet sexually expliCit? Just trying to get it in the chat.

Laurie Watson [00:21:36]:

I don’t know. Maybe feet. I mean, I can imagine sexually explicit pictures of feet.

George Faller [00:21:42]:

Like feet in places or holding things.

Laurie Watson [00:21:45]:

Yeah, like maybe feet stimulating a man or all kinds of things. Who knows? We could let our imaginations run wild about sexy feet.

George Faller [00:21:56]:

I’m thinking about my feet in a way I never thought of them before. All right, here we go.

Laurie Watson [00:22:00]:

I got to say, I have a girlfriend who has an anti foot fetish. And when we were young, I knew this about her. I knew that feet were super important. And if the feet didn’t work, the guy didn’t work. And we had set her up on a date, and we were all on a hike together, and this guy says, wow, that stream looks really cool. I think I’ll take my shoes off and wade in. I’m like, oh, don’t do that. Because I just knew as soon as he took his shoes off.

Laurie Watson [00:22:30]:

She was going to say, oh, I don’t like his feet, and it was going to be all over.

George Faller [00:22:34]:

I thought you were going to say anti feet, that she wanted to cut feet off like she was into amputees or something. Everyone’s got their stuff. No, but back to our mailbox, okay.

Laurie Watson [00:22:44]:

Back to our person. So she’s saying, I don’t know what to do with this. I thought he could trust me and be open with his wants and desires, and maybe the nature of his desire is too shameful. I don’t know. She said, it’s not that big a deal. But what do I do with this discovery? Do I talk to him about it? Do I pretend like I didn’t see this? I mean, clearly he was not overly trying to hide something because he just hands over his phone, but he didn’t.

George Faller [00:23:15]:

Initiate the sharing of it. Right.

Laurie Watson [00:23:17]:

He did not found out sharing it.

George Faller [00:23:19]:

Of a secret without.

Laurie Watson [00:23:23]:

So I think with anything. First of all, they seem like they’re in a relatively new partnership, and I guess my sense of in a new relationship, it’s hard to reveal our whole erotic self all at once. Who I am as an erotic being is a discovery both for myself and to share with my partner over time. I don’t think I told my husband one of my secret fantasies for, like, 20 years or something.

George Faller [00:23:52]:

What was it?

Laurie Watson [00:23:55]:

Not Going to tell you.

George Faller [00:23:56]:

You can’t tease our listeners like that.

Laurie Watson [00:23:59]:

Listeners any way I want, but it takes courage to share all these things.

George Faller [00:24:06]:

Yeah. And it also hurts to find out things the way she found out. Right. So I think there is a repair that needs to happen. Some ownership on his part to say, hey, listen. And I think most people just don’t want to be judged and don’t want to feel embarrassed and don’t want their partner to worry about them. So I think that’s the first step. Just saying.

George Faller [00:24:27]:

I’m sorry you found out this way, but there is an opportunity in finding out now. It’s out on the open. We can talk about, like, what does this represent? Is it a threat to the relationship? Do you think about other women this way? Is it just something we can spice up? How do you know unless you have that conversation? Degree of the pull. I think with every fetish there is a fixation on something. For good reasons, usually. And we see this a lot. Not equating it with trauma, but I remember working with a wife who was raped when she was younger and by her uncle, but she also loved her uncle. It was like it was a mixed, kind of confusing.

George Faller [00:25:09]:

Her body liked the touch and an affection, but it didn’t like the lack of safety. And as she got older, when she’d have an orgasm, she’d have to think about her uncle. So wires do get twisted when formative places. And I’m not saying that’s the case with all fetishes, but there is a fixation that I think it would be good to explore. And like you said, can you expand that so it’s not interfering with the connection sexually with your partner? If they could both be into it in a playful way, I think that would be the ideal situation.

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Laurie Watson [00:26:37]:

Yeah, I mean, I think in this case, what she indicates is he’s very drawn to her. They have a great sex life. They have a good emotional connection. So this is a part of him, but it is not his full arousal pattern. He has a good arousal pattern that includes her. It’s what it sounds like. I had a girlfriend who had a guy who liked her feet and kind of had a foot fetish, but it was part of his arousal pattern. And so we took pictures of her feet in the bubble bath and with honey dripping all over them with a silky scarf wrapped, we sent it to him.

Laurie Watson [00:27:15]:

I was the photographer and just helping her be playful about this because he was in another country most of the time. It was something that she was able to totally adopt and not feel threatened by and play with it and kind of tease him with it and arouse him with it. So they incorporated that fetish into their sex life.

George Faller [00:27:40]:

Is that so different than porn?

Laurie Watson [00:27:43]:

I don’t think so. And in this case, there wasn’t a secret. He was out with it right at the beginning, so there wasn’t any kind of injury of, like, how come you didn’t tell me? And what does this mean? He was able to say, hey, this is kind of what I’m into.

George Faller [00:28:00]:

Yeah. I mean, what options do you have? If you keep it secret, it’s likely going to lead to some feeling of betrayal. And if you have the fetish, it’s not a choice. Right. It’s something that developed, and we’re not really sure why, but to be able to understand that, you have to take that risk to talk about it.

Laurie Watson [00:28:22]:

Yeah, I think so, too. I think anytime you discover something, even accidentally, and it doesn’t sound like she was snooping or doing something, he knew she was looking at his phone. So you got to say something, because otherwise, that information inside, you don’t know what to do with it. And it’s going to bother you, and it’s going to bother the relationship if it bothers you again.

George Faller [00:28:49]:

That’s so important. I mean, it is about the communication, and it represents something, right? If it’s not named, it becomes this lurking threat in the relationship. Put it in perspective. If it is a big deal and this is a bigger part of your sexual being, then we got to figure out what you’re going to do with that. What percentage do you want it to take up space in your relationship, right, exactly.

Laurie Watson [00:29:13]:

And it sounds like she’s going to talk with him. She kind of is trying to figure out how so that he doesn’t feel more ashamed. And I think we do this all the time, right? We set people up of how to say it better. And I like the way you do it, George, where you spiral into the.

George Faller [00:29:32]:

You’re.

Laurie Watson [00:29:32]:

You’re always global at first, and then you bring it down to maybe what the point of your communique is. So it’s like, hey, the other day, remember I was looking on your phone for those pictures of the house, and I just stumbled across something. And I just want you to know I love what we have going on sexually, and we have something so good, and it’s so precious. And I found some images, and I just wanted to talk with you about them and what they might mean. And I’m not really all that upset about it. I think I just want to see if we can have a conversation and maybe what you feel about this. And that was when I found the pictures of. Pictures of my feet, which was interesting, and I have different feelings about that.

Laurie Watson [00:30:17]:

But I also found pictures of other women’s feet and kind of wanted to ask you about how you feel about feet. What’s the sexual turn on or is there a sexual turn on, or can you help me understand how you feel about that? How is that?

George Faller [00:30:34]:

I love you being explicit about trying to stay curious, trying to stay open, trying not to be judgmental, but trying to confront the issue, because she deserves that. I mean, she’S got a fear that she didn’t have, and her partner’s job is to kind of give space to listen to that. It’s all about engagement. If this leads to more engagement, then the couple wins. If he gets defensive and shuts down and she’s shut out, and this becomes a secret, that is like a competing attachment. So it’s really what this couple wants to do with it, as you would say. And I was like, well, maybe she could hold up a note with her feet and say, we need to talk. Try to get playful with how you can kind of integrate these two.

Laurie Watson [00:31:17]:

My feet want to talk to you.

George Faller [00:31:23]:

Well, we got to have some fun with this stuff, too, but we know it’s a serious topic. If you’re the person who’s into something, it holds some sexual charge for you. And if you’re the partner that’s not into that, it could be a threat. So couples in this situation need help to talk about it. And I just think that’s so often, like, a lot of issues because people don’t know how to do it. They don’t find a bridge. They just head off in separate directions, and they both feel shame and fear and hurt, and they just don’t know how to share it with each other, which is really sad. So I love that she’s reaching out.

George Faller [00:31:58]:

She’s already addressing it. She’s going to talk to a partner about it, and they’re already on the road towards that expansion that Laurie’s talking about, because that just gives us more to play with.

Laurie Watson [00:32:09]:

Yeah, exactly.

George Faller [00:32:10]:

More to foot. Tickle with each other.

Laurie Watson [00:32:13]:

You and your tickling. Good Lord.

George Faller [00:32:16]:

Okay, y’all, keep it hot.

Laurie Watson [00:32:19]:

Keep it hot.

George Faller [00:32:20]:

Oh, yeah.

Laurie Watson [00:32:21]:

Okay, so tell us about your cutting edge training that you’re doing on success and vulnerability, Laurie.

George Faller [00:32:27]:

We just keep pushing it. Coming up with a new module on the playbook of a pursuer. Playbook of a witcher. Really practical, moment by moment moves of what a therapist can use. We’re so focused on what’s happening in session enough. There’s talk about theories and these global things I think most therapists are looking for. What do I do in this moment? Give me a tool, George. So that’s what we’re trying to do.

Laurie Watson [00:32:53]:

That’s awesOme. I am so glad you guys are doing this work. I think it helps us be organized to see you do it. You do demos, you do explanations, teaching. It really is interactive, and I think that so many trainings that we sit through don’t give us an opportunity for that. So what you’re doing is really important.

George Faller [00:33:12]:

No, we try to emphasize the teach it, show it, do it model of learning. You need to have some ideas. So we try to teach those, and then we try to show what it looks like implementing those ideas. But most importantly, you now got to practice it. That’s how they become yours, and that’s what we want our listeners and watchers to do and become their own moves.

Laurie Watson [00:33:31]:

Find George and his [email protected] call in.

Joe Davis – Announcer [00:33:36]:

Your questions to the foreplay question voicemail, dial eight three three my foreplay. That’s eight three three my the number four play, and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.