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George Faller [00:01:28]:

It’s that time of the year, holidays. And you know what comes with holidays? Stress.

Laurie Watson [00:01:35]:

No sex.

George Faller [00:01:37]:

No sex, too.

Laurie Watson [00:01:42]:

Welcome to Foreplay Sex Therapy. I’m Dr. Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller [00:01:47]:

And I’m George Fowley, a couple’s therapist.

Laurie Watson [00:01:49]:

We are here to talk about sex.

George Faller [00:01:51]:

Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind, and their hearts.

Laurie Watson [00:01:59]:

And we have a little bit of fun doing it right?

George Faller [00:02:01]:

G listen and let’s change some relationships.

Laurie Watson [00:02:05]:

You know, George, as a know, I love Christmas. I love the like. It is the most wonderful time of the year for me right today even. We’re recording this the day before Thanksgiving, and I’m leaving you to go home to make pies after I work for another few hours. And I can feel in me the joy, but I can also feel so much stress.

George Faller [00:02:30]:

Yeah, we’re always overworked, but we take it to a whole nother level. It’s like overworked on steroids during this time of year.

Laurie Watson [00:02:38]:

So true.

George Faller [00:02:39]:

It increases relationship stress. I know me and my wife, it’s like she’s running around with a chicken without her head, and I want to actually slow down. I’m like, I work like a crazy person all year. This is the time to sit and kind of enjoy the rewards of that work. And it’s hard to sit down when your partner’s running around doing a million different things, and I’m like.

Laurie Watson [00:03:01]:

I know.

George Faller [00:03:02]:

How do we prepare ourselves for what likely is to happen? I think as therapists we try to do this with couples all the time, stop getting surprised by the same patterns, the same setups over and over again, right. That this is supposed to be a magical time to recharge and to be grateful and all that beautiful stuff. But with it comes all these other stresses that we want to be ready for.

Laurie Watson [00:03:25]:

Financial stress, time stress, lack of time stress. Like I said, the expectations of just something that’s going to be magical. I tell my family that on Christmas Eve, just expect me to be a witch because I have all this stuff I got to do and all these expectations, and then magically, somehow or another, at 06:00 when the guests arrive, I’m going to be happy and smiling. And I expect my family, who’s put up with me all day, to be happy and smiling to lots of stress.

George Faller [00:04:00]:

I think we should start there. That’s one that’s tough for me to understand. I mean, it’s a beautiful thing to make the house beautiful and welcoming and creating an atmosphere, but to accomplish that goal, if it creates an atmosphere of tension and resentfulness and negative messages, I mean, it almost feels like it defeats the purpose.

Laurie Watson [00:04:24]:

It does. It really does. But I can tell you that I think one thing is oftentimes that magical creation of Christmas is kind of what I feel like is on me. Literally this weekend. I probably don’t have five minutes of free time. I’ve got to get the tree up. I’ve already Been shopping. I’ve been shopping, George, for months.

Laurie Watson [00:04:53]:

I have all the stocking stuffers done. But it is a Christmas machine. There is so much, and I don’t think necessarily that my partner has been aware of all that I’ve been doing or over the years, kind of all that I did. Because can you imagine your busy work life? And then add to that Christmas shopping, Christmas decorating, Thanksgiving cooking, just, just add that on top.

George Faller [00:05:22]:

Yeah. I mean, something’s got to give.

Laurie Watson [00:05:26]:

Yeah. And usually it’s my mood.

George Faller [00:05:32]:

I’m doing some trainings in Copenhagen and Oslo and then come back and pretty much gone all before Christmas. We literally come back Christmas Eve night and my wife takes the tree down, like right after Christmas. So before we get on a flight, she wants to set the tree up to sit empty in the house just so on. Because I’m like, we have a little tree. Can’t we put the little tree up? Why don’t we guys spend hours on something that literally we’re never even going to see. So it’s like this. You can see the different perspectives that come into really, no one’s right or wrong that she’s willing to do the extra work to set. That climate is beautiful.

George Faller [00:06:10]:

And that day, I would appreciate it, but I don’t appreciate the stress and the fighting that has to go in the setup of making all of that happen.

Laurie Watson [00:06:19]:

Your house and my house sound like familiar houses across the nation right now. The one feeling the pressure and the other feeling like, what’s the big deal? Why do we got to do this now? It’s only going to be for a little bit. I get it, though. She wants to walk into Christmas. The kids will be home. She wants them to come home to Christmas. I think there is, I don’t know, oftentimes a gender difference here in terms of the expectations and also the roles of who does what.

George Faller [00:06:56]:

Yeah, well, again, we both got to bridge some of this distance. So I got to get a little bit more of what drives it and you got to get a little bit more of what drives it. On our end, I certainly think I’m biased. My end makes a lot more sense to enjoy the time instead of stressing over it. So what would happen if things weren’t perfect, if they weren’t set up? Would that just feel like a let down? If people are going to judge you, the in laws come over, somebody looks at the house and the reef is not up or the colors aren’t right. If it’s not perfect, what would that feel like?

Laurie Watson [00:07:35]:

I think to me, it feels like I’m letting people down. It also feels like I’m being let down because it is such a magical time for myself. Yeah, it just feels like. What a downer. Absolutely. What a downer to be in a house that is not Christmas cheerful.

George Faller [00:08:02]:

To me, Christmas cheerful is just the music and, like, the movies and the food and I could order a pizza and just have a good conversation. I don’t need the gourmet meals. But again, every time they’re prepared and I enjoy all the options. But again, I’m just trying to kind of lean into your perspective of what if that Christmas Eve, you’re miserable to have a magical Christmas, is that worth it? Or that stress level of just trying. Like you said, there’s not a moment you’re sitting still. You are going to go from decorating to cooking to present wrapping. I mean, in all the presents, you got to get beforehand. And every year it seems harder to get presents for people, and we start early.

George Faller [00:08:46]:

It used to start like a couple of weeks before now, November, Thanksgiving, you’re late. If you’re not already shopping and getting presents.

Laurie Watson [00:08:55]:

You don’t want to wait till Black Friday.

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Laurie Watson [00:09:29]:

This episode is brought to you by the Weather Channel app. Did you know the app can help you forecast more than just the weather with allergy tracking and fluids mapping, so you know when to stay inside and load up on podcasts, as well as air quality and UV indexing. So you know when to get outside, load up on sunscreen and podcasts, forecast more of what you love with the Weather Channel. You know, one of the things I think about, George, is looking back, I mean, have you ever been on a family vacation where your kids just bitch and moan about how miserable they are? They didn’t go where they wanted. They don’t want to do the things you want to do all that. But then in about two or three years, they talk about that family vacation like it was the best time ever. And so somewhat I think about that as Christmas. There are certain markers in our life and holidays, vacations, those things kids really hearken back to as solidifying their sense of family.

Laurie Watson [00:10:35]:

And I think it really does make a difference when they think about it in retrospect. Like, wow, my parents put so much effort into it. They cared. They worked hard to make it a beautiful, magical time, even. They don’t remember the stress. They don’t remember much of that. I don’t know. I think that that effort is kind of worth it in retrospect.

George Faller [00:11:01]:

I like the idea of making memories. That’s really what I hear you saying you’re trying to do. It’s like my wife always pushes for the picture and we always fight her. Come on, take the picture. But a year later, two years later, you look at that picture and it’s like, oh, that was such a great time. You remember the environment or the concept that was created right in that picture, even if you don’t really remember stress of it all. So that picture, that magical memory, is worth the days of stress and bickering and fighting to kind of hold on to that.

Laurie Watson [00:11:34]:

I know. But I think, too, while maybe I’m bitchy before, while it’s all happening, the other side of it, while you don’t understand it, the support and appreciation would change that bitchiness. It is part of a cycle. It’s like if you went, oh, man, honey, this is beautiFul. Look at what you’ve created. This is going to be so magical for us to walk in. Christmas is going to be done. We’re going to be able to enjoy the kids.

Laurie Watson [00:12:05]:

Thank you so much for that effort. I don’t know. I think that that would lower her stress considerably. It would lower mine.

George Faller [00:12:13]:

I failed that test when I tell my wife, we don’t need two platters of different food per person. There’s five of us here, right? If we’re not entertaining other people. But I hear what you’re saying, and I think it’s helpful to recognize as the partner who doesn’t see the need for that extravagant kind of work. It actually does make the person who’s doing the work get into some kind of spirit. Like, I don’t know how my wife can go a million miles an hour, and then the day of Christmas, she’s super happy about it all. Everything’s in place, and she could actually enjoy how it unfolds. So it does seem like the payoff for her is worth it on that day. It doesn’t feel like it’s worth it for me, the weeks leading up to it, but we’ll talk to that.

George Faller [00:13:05]:

We’ll talk about my side of it afterwards here.

Laurie Watson [00:13:07]:

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George Faller [00:16:28]:

All right, so if we have magical memories, which is driving the hectic pace on your side of the street, on my side of the street, it’s listen, this is all the work is to actually enjoy some quality time, to be able to kind of sit on a couch and have some conversations and just not work. You spend most of the year going a million miles an hour. This is the time to kind of destress, to kind of just kind of sit back. And when I don’t get that, it’s hard to. Even if you decide you want to just sit down and watch a show or do something. If your partner is running around a million miles an hour, you’re set up to feel either guilty that you’re not helping or stand up for yourself and say, come on, I don’t want to do this. And now it turns into a fight, and you’re minimizing what the other person is doing. There’s not a lot of great options if your partner doesn’t see the value in kind of joining you and decompressing.

Laurie Watson [00:17:30]:

I mean, I can certainly see that the spirit of what you’re talking about is kind of the spirit of the holiday, to be together, to enjoy each other, to have warm times. I do think there’s a really good meaning in what you’re trying to accomplish.

George Faller [00:17:47]:

Yeah. And it’s intentionally wanting to do less because most of your life you have to do so much. This is the time when you’re off of work where you can actually do less. I’m sure there’s gender pieces. I mean, I think Thanksgiving, I’m watching the football games, and it’d be great to cook the turkey and do the other things, but I’d be fine ordering pizza, not having a turkey. I would rather sit there and enjoy some conversation. And yet that often gets read as being lazy, which is like, don’t you have a right to be lazy on holiday? I mean, when during a year do you get a chance to be lazy? Right. To me, it’s like the in home vacation you’re trying to.

George Faller [00:18:30]:

And I get. You have to get presents and you have to get food, and there are logistical things that need to happen, and you start to have in laws come over and there’s a whole lot of things that are going to add stress anyway, but when do you carve out moments to actually enjoy? And maybe that’s the balance that we’re trying to strike here. Like, how do I engage more with my wife? So she’s not doing this stuff alone, and she’s appreciated for the memories she’s creating, but how does she show her flexibility and say, we got to carve out time for intimacy, for watching a movie, for going on a walk, and there’s not enough hours in a day to do all that. There’s something’s got to give here.

Laurie Watson [00:19:12]:

Yeah. I can feel myself wanting to have a cycle with you. I can feel the other side so strongly. It’s really hard to hear this side. It’s like, sure, we don’t have to do any of the decorations, and we could just have pizza. But what a downer, really and truly, if there were no food in the house and there was no planning for meals and your kids come home from college, George, and there’s nothing there, is that really going to be a relaxed, good time?

George Faller [00:19:54]:

It’d be a good experiment. What are the kids looking to do when they come home? What are the kids looking to do? They want to run around chicken without having work or they want to sit back, open some presents and have a good time.

Laurie Watson [00:20:08]:

Right. But I mean, I think it’s okay.

George Faller [00:20:11]:

For our kids to want that, but it’s not okay for a partner to want that.

Laurie Watson [00:20:19]:

Okay, but how do you bring on the side?

George Faller [00:20:22]:

Let’s go. How do you think?

Laurie Watson [00:20:24]:

Oh, my God. Exactly. Sure, all of you can sit around and watch football and movies and stuff like that, but I think, first of all, your knowledge of all the things that is going on behind the scenes to make that enjoyable and relaxing, I really don’t think if you wake up in the morning and there’s no breakfast and there’s no lunch and there’s pizza for dinner five nights in a row, that there’s going to be a lot. And you are in your children, you.

George Faller [00:20:57]:

Are going to the extremes. Nobody’s saying you’re not going to go above, beyond. I mean, I’m the one going shopping and getting the stuff and the presents and all that stuff. Everybody’s got to step up more to create an environment. We’re just talking about the extremes. On a one to ten scale, if I want to turn it up to a five and I don’t see the value of doing a ten. Like, if I don’t want to run outside and kind of hang reefs on my mailbox or climb to the top of my house and put up a light or all the little extras that some people get so much enjoyment out of. Right.

George Faller [00:21:30]:

And if you get enjoyment out of it, go for it. But if you get stressed, I mean, to me, the fruits are in the results. And I, like, hear what you’re saying. It helps me understand the magical memories. If you get that on that day, that it’s worth kind of the work that you’re putting in. But if you don’t get that payoff from the work, is it okay to want to do less work and not to be shamed for it, not to be called lazy or that you don’t have the spirit, you just have a different type of spirit. Like, I would like to think about my family members that are not here during the holidays. I would like when am I ever going to slow down and be able to have those type of conversations if I’m running around with a chicken without egg?

Laurie Watson [00:22:10]:

So for you, you would want more availability from Kathy to have those conversations with, to just sort of relax dinners and time by the fire and that kind of thing?

George Faller [00:22:23]:

Yeah.

Laurie Watson [00:22:25]:

I’m 100% with you, Kathy. I’m 100% with you, Kathy.

George Faller [00:22:33]:

If I want more downtime, I’m probably going to want more affection and more intimacy and more sex, too. And my wife’s going to be less available because she’s exhausted going a million miles an hour. So you can see how this divide around how to do holidays starts to kind of also get into the bedroom.

Laurie Watson [00:22:52]:

It does, yeah. And I think I get that. I also feel almost exhausted listening to you. I think this fight is such a cycle in so many marriages where somebody said, it isn’t even just Christmas. It’s like, why do we have to have the floors vacuumed and clean so often? It’s like, I don’t care. Let’s just hang out. And the standards are really different between people. Yeah, but it’s a similar argument, George, is why do we have to have sex? So, you know.

George Faller [00:23:32]:

Discrepancy and whatever it is is typical for every couple we’re attracted to someone who’s opposite of us. Right. You’re late, I’m early. You like it clean? I like it messy. I want it five times a week. You don’t want it once a week? I mean, these are just the things that couples got to navigate, and we’re just trying to help People talk about this on a front end and talk about it now as you’re going into the holidays, try to learn to respect each other’s position. Right? I mean, if my wife wants magical memories and I want to help with that and appreciate that, I think that makes it easier for her instead of getting frustrated if she appreciates what’s driving it for me. I want to have some downtime.

George Faller [00:24:10]:

I want to really connect. I often don’t get a chance to do that because I’m too busy. Both of us are looking for really healthy things.

Laurie Watson [00:24:17]:

What about a trade? You ask your partner, okay, you give me 2 hours of holiday time and just do whatever I ask you to do. Put the wreath on the mailbox, put the lights on the top of the house, and I’ll give you 2 hours of doing nothing but you and me after dinner.

George Faller [00:24:34]:

I think that’d be awesome. Both sides are getting what they really want during this time of year.

Laurie Watson [00:24:44]:

I will say, that is one of the ways I solved the holiday stress in my own home. I basically have a list of all the things that need to be done. And I ask my family, look at, you know, how stressed out I get. Could you sign up for two or three of these things? And they get to choose the things that are their favorite things to do. And then we kind of divide the list. And one of the things, though they don’t argue with me, is what’s on the list. Well, this one doesn’t have to be on the list. This one isn’t important.

Laurie Watson [00:25:13]:

It’s like, I’m not saying it is. I’m just saying this is my list. This is how you can help.

George Faller [00:25:18]:

It’s going to get done.

Laurie Watson [00:25:19]:

Damn. Will you help me either? I do it all. Yeah. Even now, I think my family is much better. But my daughter in law has observed that. I can’t believe how much you do for Christmas, Lori. Like you run the Christmas machine still. Where are they when you’re decorating the tree? She’s like, I wish I were there with you.

Laurie Watson [00:25:41]:

By the way, my daughter in law is moving back to the area and I’m so delighted to have her nearby soon. And that is one of the reasons.

George Faller [00:25:51]:

With that, too, both of you can run around together. Give them a break.

Laurie Watson [00:25:56]:

At least we are going to be together in it. And it’s so exciting. That is one of the drivers for me is my son and my daughter in law are moving home. You can’t imagine the explosion in my chest of so much joy about this. But it also drives this. I want it to be even more magical. We’re going to get the biggest tree we’ve ever had in all history just to celebrate them.

George Faller [00:26:23]:

I’m tired already just listening to it. We just redid our kitchen and the kitchen area is bigger. And we had a party the other day and everybody was hanging out in the kitchen and my wife was in heaven because she’s running around doing everything, but people are there helping and having a drink and making laughs. And it was like a communal just hangout, which is really kind of what she’s looking for.

Laurie Watson [00:26:51]:

Right?

George Faller [00:26:52]:

And the flip side of it, a lot of guys are hanging outside by the fire pit and having a cigar and having a drink and shooting a breeze. And both sides were super happy, the party was super successful. And then you find these overlaps and it’s all good, but I like the idea of just trying to not pathologize the other person’s way of feeling good during these times. If you want to make things magical and you’re willing to put in the work, that should be celebrated, if you really want to take some time to decompress and focus on these relationships you often don’t have time for, that’s amazing, too. And you’re coming at it from different extremes. But being able to find common ground, that’s what this crazy dance of love is all about. Right, Lori?

Laurie Watson [00:27:40]:

It is. It is. I like the idea of finding common ground however you do it. And I know that we’re not really solving the cycle because we’re not potentially deeply understanding each other and the needs. But sometimes I think just making it seem somewhat fair would be helpful.

George Faller [00:28:03]:

Yeah, well, there are ouches. Right? Your ouch is feeling alone and rejected in the work. And my ouch is being told I’m failing because I’m not wanting to do the work. Right. And those places.

Laurie Watson [00:28:15]:

I’m too much, right?

George Faller [00:28:16]:

You’re too much.

Laurie Watson [00:28:17]:

I’m too much. You’re too little.

George Faller [00:28:19]:

Yeah. Here we go again. The cycle. The cycle thrives during the holidays, which is pretty tragic. And we’re just trying to prepare couples that the stress level is increasing. You’re thinking you got financial stresses, you got relationship stresses, you have people you haven’t seen coming in, and there’s just.

Laurie Watson [00:28:36]:

So much that gets thrown in. Law stresses.

George Faller [00:28:41]:

Yeah, we’ll do a whole demand, but just recognize. And this is where, if you could just talk about the likelihood of this cycle coming, it’s just easy to recognize, hey, we’re doing it again. I know you’re trying to do your best for magical moments. I know you want George some downtime. It’s okay. Let’s find a better balance. It can be quick. These repair conversations instead of them sinking the whole time.

George Faller [00:29:06]:

Because to me, that’s the biggest loss. Like, both people are grinding to get towards these couple of days off to connect with family, and then they fight the whole damn time. And it’s like, really? This didn’t need to go down that way.

Laurie Watson [00:29:18]:

I know, I agree. Make a list. Sign up. Schedule some sex, too, and have a little sex, too. I agree. Okay. We are thinking of you and we wish you warm holidays. We hope that you stay out of the holiday cycle.

Laurie Watson [00:29:37]:

There are two sides to it, I think, often. And we’re with you. We struggle, too.

George Faller [00:29:43]:

Notice Lori’s often. There are always two sides, right. But we’re holding hands and sending you all our blessings and wishes because this is the time where love matters the most. And really just take some intentionality to give thanks for all that you have and to have the people in your life that you do.

Laurie Watson [00:30:03]:

Yes. Thanks for listening.

George Faller [00:30:06]:

Keep it hot, baby.

Laurie Watson [00:30:08]:

Okay, so tell us about your cutting edge training that you’re doing on success and vulnerability, Laurie.

George Faller [00:30:14]:

We just keep pushing it. Coming up with a new module on the playbook of a pursuer, playbook of a witcher, really practical, moment by moment moves of what a therapist can use. We’re so focused on what’s happening in session enough. There’s talk about theories and these global things I think most therapists are looking for. What do I do in this moment? Give me a tool, George. So that’s what we’re trying to do.

Laurie Watson [00:30:40]:

That’s awesome. I am so glad you guys are doing this work. I think it helps us be organized to see you do it. You do demos, you do explanations, teaching. It really is interactive, and I think that so many trainings that we sit through don’t give us an opportunity for that. So what you’re doing is really important.

George Faller [00:30:59]:

No. We try to emphasize to teach it, show it, do it model of learning. You need to have some ideas, so we try to teach those, and then we try to show what it looks like implementing those ideas. But most importantly, you now got to practice it. That’s how they become yours. And that’s what we want our listeners and watchers to do, is become their own moves.

Laurie Watson [00:31:18]:

Find George and his [email protected] call in.

Joe Davis – Announcer [00:31:23]:

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