Transcript

Ad Announcer [00:00:00]:
Earning your degree online doesn’t mean you have to go about it alone. At Capella University, we’re here to support you when you’re ready. From enrollment counselors who get to know you and your goals to academic coaches who can help you form a plan to stay on track. We care about your success and are dedicated to helping you pursue your goals. Going back to school is a big step, but having support at every step of your academic journey can make a big difference. Imagine your future differently at capella.edu.

Ad Announcer [00:00:30]:
This is Kristen Bell and Adam Brody and were dating in our new show nobody wants this. Right? Right.

Ad Announcer [00:00:35]:
Were not really dating.

Ad Announcer [00:00:37]:
No. In real life.

Ad Announcer [00:00:38]:
Were married.

Ad Announcer [00:00:38]:
Right.

Ad Announcer [00:00:39]:
Married to other people, not each other.

Ad Announcer [00:00:40]:
Ugh. This is complicated, right? Its just like our love lives. And nobody wants this. A show about what happens when a bold and sometimes provocative podcast host finds her unlikely match in a sweet, traditional rabbi. You can watch every episode of nobody wants this now only on Netflix.

Ad Announcer [00:00:56]:
If you send hey, they send hey. But with opening moves on Bumble, you can get to better chats faster. Because if you send most underrated summer activity, they send eating spicy soup in front of the air conditioner on full blast. And that’s something you can work with. You’re still making the first move, but you can choose a question or write your own to get sent to all your matches so you can relax and see what they come back with. Download bumble and try it for yourself.

Joe Davis – Announcer [00:01:24]:
The following content is not suitable for children.

George Faller [00:01:25]:
Back to the school of love. Continuing the conversation, going deeper, baby, into vulnerability. This time with George. You’re up.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:01:36]:
Ooh. With jars. Your turn, your turn. Welcome to Foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller [00:01:47]:
And I’m George Faller, your couples therapist.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:01:49]:
We are here to talk about sex!

George Faller [00:01:51]:
Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind, and their hearts.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:01:59]:
And we have a little bit of fun doing it. Right,G?

George Faller [00:02:01]:
Listen and let’s change some relationships. Yeah. Lori, last episode we talked about that vulnerability underneath it for pursuers, that sense of rejection, feeling lonely, not making sense of the loneliness, it must be them. I mean, it’s a really nasty place, and it’s never safe to talk about because your partner’s gone. So getting the withdrawers to stay present, stay open, stay curious, gives the space for the pursuers to send clearer signals. It’s that vulnerability that’s the solution to a negative cycle. And that’s why this is so important. So today we’re going to talk about what it’s like for the Witcher, the.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:02:40]:
Withdrawal world is so mysterious to us pursuers. Why in the world I got to understand all this? So what we really want is people to, like we said last time, you need to have a little bit of safety between the two of you before you have these conversations. But having these conversations is the essence of healing. It’s really when you’re willing to sit with your partner’s difficulties and pain without jumping in, you know, then you can start to heal. So help me understand what I’m supposed to do with a withdrawal, with an emotional withdrawal. How am I going to even get them to want to do this, George?

George Faller [00:03:23]:
Right.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:03:24]:
Because I actually would. I do want my withdraw to open up and tell me about their underbelly. But I just feel like if I’m going to ask for that, it’s going to push them away. How do we do this?

George Faller [00:03:34]:
Oh, it’s why it’s important to see the context of they’re only walking away in a fight because something is happening emotionally inside of them. There’s always an ouch when people protect themselves. They are in a flight response. There’s safety in going away because if they don’t go away what’s going to happen? More criticism, more messages of failure. More messages are coming up short. Right? Things are going to escalate, only going to get worse. So trying to get to that vulnerability for withdrawers is often that place of I’m failing, I’m coming up short, I’m letting my partner down. I don’t know how to fix it.

George Faller [00:04:11]:
It’s a failure in co regulation. The fight is telling them don’t do emotions with people because they just tell you how much you suck. Go away to self regulation. There’s safety when you go away you can think more clearly, you could problem solve. Every time they go away they have success in self regulation and then they come back and try to talk about it. It’s another fighting and a failure and co regulation. So we really need the pursuers to be our ally here. If you want withdrawals to talk about their vulnerability, they got to have success.

George Faller [00:04:43]:
If they’re going to get more criticism, it’s another failure in co regulation. You really got to keep your focus on the withdrawal and on that mission.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:04:51]:
Okay. So we’re going to play this out right as a couple. Then they’re going to have to be pretty disciplined to really give each other that space. The withdrawer is going to have to have some sense of hope inside. Maybe if I tell my partner this will be different, something different will happen because me walking away clearly just makes them dysregulated. So I’m going to, they have to be brave enough to want to try something new. So, yeah, this is the courage that we’re calling out in withdrawers.

George Faller [00:05:26]:
Yeah. And pursue is you could have good intentions, but this is hard. And that’s why they jump in, because they want to influence the outcome and motivate things. And, but even if you can catch that, if you can catch how you jump in and you start making it about you, you start recognizing why this is so hard for the withdrawers to engage, because they’re anticipating that. Right. And even if you fail, if you could own that afterwards and say, you know what, I’m sorry, I wasn’t able to do that. And that’s why as a therapist, sometimes this is easier because if the partner, the pursuer, jumps in, I can stop them and honor that. But then I could respond, I help the withdrawal have success with their experience.

George Faller [00:06:03]:
They have to have success with these vulnerable feelings if they’re going to know how to reengage with it. So that’s really going to be the mission here.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:06:10]:
Okay. Success, definitely the mission. You know, I also think one of the things as a pursuer that is so easy to do is we want to help. So we sometimes jump in trying to shape the outcome and things and give our withdrawing partner words and all that because we’re actually trying to help them, but it often backfires because they feel like they’re being corrected. They feel like they’re not saying it right, all of that. So we have to put even aside those good intentions of wanting to help our partner get it out just for a little bit aside and kind of be in an open, empty vessel. Right. Like, tell me what you got.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:06:54]:
And also knowing that the withdrawer probably oftentimes they don’t have a lot of words, and so they’re going to kind of stumble. They’re not going to be as fluid with their words. And we have to be really patient with that in order to give them that space to talk about their feelings.

George Faller [00:07:14]:
Exactly. Pursue is, you’re really trying to pay attention to impact here. We trust you have good reasons, but this is really your chance to focus on the withdrawal, get to know their world, get curious about why your attempts to help and give a little bit of vice, lenses, criticism and demobilizes or demotivates them. Right. That curiosity on your part we can talk about, well, let’s get into practice in Ithoodae. So I’ll be the withdrawal. I’ll be Joey emotionally. Then we’ll switch it in the second part.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:07:45]:
Okay.

George Faller [00:07:45]:
And I think you’re starting to get how I go away to feel safe and then you’re going to try to explore what’s underneath that. So you want to start us off telling me how you’re starting to get my going away differently?

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:07:58]:
Okay. You know, honey, yesterday when we were in that fight and you walked away, I gotta say, really hard for me, you know, and I felt that panicky feeling. And I, frankly, like the old days, I wanted to chase you into the bedroom and, like, get you to talk to me and shake you. But, you know, we’re past. We’re way past that. And you said, you know, you keep kind of telling me that this going away place makes you feel calmer. And even though it doesn’t make me feel calmer, I just, like, I would like to know, like, how you get safer. You get calmer when you’re by yourself, when we’re disrupted.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:08:43]:
Help me understand what goes on in you. If you. If you’d be willing to. And you don’t have to. Maybe we talk about it another time.

George Faller [00:08:49]:
But no, I think it’s, when I get away, the simplest thing, it stops to fight. I don’t have to. Kind of. I’m already feeling overwhelmed with the emotion and the messages and the words. It’s like if I get away, that’s like. My body’s like, all right, let’s reset now. Like, what the hell happened? I could start trying to think more clearly and problem solve. Like, I’ve just been doing that my whole life by myself.

George Faller [00:09:13]:
So it’s just, there’s, there’s comfort in going back to that place when I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed, you know? And I know doesn’t do great things to you, but I’m. Yeah, it just makes me feel more in control when I can get away from the fight.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:09:29]:
Yeah, I get that. It’s like you’re walking away from the heat. You’re like you’re cooling off. And I’m not mad at you anymore. You can’t see me being mad at you and all my angry faces. It’s like, you don’t have to keep looking at that. And you told me that when your mom would get mad at you, you’d go outside and just get away from it. And it made you feel freer and better.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:09:58]:
I guess that’s what I’m hearing is at the very minimum, the fight is stopped. And so all that noise is not in your head. Is that right?

George Faller [00:10:09]:
Yeah.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:10:12]:
Yeah, I think I get that. I get that. And then you feel a little bit better. You’re kind of collecting your thoughts, trying to make sense of what we’re upset about. Yeah.

Advertisement 2 [00:10:27]:
Okay, y’all. I’m shifting my wardrobe from summer to fall, and it’s always a challenge because I like things to go together, and I like things that are wearable. And Quince offers timeless and high quality items that I adore.. And it basically ensures that my wardrobe is always fresh and also that I don’t blow my budget. So I bought this beautiful kind of white cashmere sweater from them with a pale silk skirt. It’s monochromatic and it’s so classic, but it’s kind of sexy. And I can’t even tell you this, this whole outfit is so perfect because it will take me through the winter, even because of the color scheme. And it fit my budget so easily. I was so excited that I went back and bought more things, sweaters and all kinds of things that I’ve been needing. The best part about all quince items is that all quince items are priced basically 50% to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top favorites, Quince cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us.

Advertisement 2 [00:11:29]:
Quince works only with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I love that you can feel good about buying from them. Make switching seasons a breeze with Quince’s high quality closet essentials. Go to quince.com/foreplay for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That’s quincy.om/foreplay to get free shipping and 365 day returns, Quince.com/ foreplay.

Advertisement 3 [00:12:05]:
Why do dogs suffer from weight issues, skin problems, messy poops and low energy? It could be the popular dog food you put in their bowl each day.

Advertisement 3 [00:12:12]:
Cody was sleeping a lot, wasn’t playing, wasn’t doing her normal stuff that she used to do.

Advertisement 3 [00:12:16]:
That’s why Doctor Marty, the veterinarian Forbes magazine, called the miracle worker, created nature’s blend. Nature’s blend is a freeze dried, raw dog food made with biologically appropriate ingredients like turkey, beef, salmon, duck, and beef liver. And once dog parents make the switch, the results can be incredible.

Advertisement 3 [00:12:32]:
We got some of the dog food, and miraculously, she’s playing with her other dog, Annie. She’s playing with another dog. She’s trotting, she’s loping, and she’s just feeling all around better.

Advertisement 3 [00:12:45]:
For a limited time, enjoy up to 54% off nature’s blend. And get a free bag of cod crispies. They’re best selling wild caught cod skin treats. Just go to drmartypets.com blend. Every nature’s blend order is backed by a 90 day money back promise. So if you want to support your dog’s digestion, soft coat, and healthy lifespan, go to drmartypets.com/blend today. All dogs are unique. Your dog’s results can and will vary.

George Faller [00:13:10]:
So let’s pause just 1 second. Ask me what happens right before I go away. Cause that’s the place you’re trying to get to. That’s the vulnerable place.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:13:17]:
Okay, good. Okay, thank you. And I wanna say something, too, as an aside, right? I mean, as we’re talking, actually, this is a withdrawer who’s giving me a ton of words, right. You know, a lot of withdrawals would not give that many words. And so, you know, you’re an evolved person, so you got a lot of words to talk about. That’s great. But then as we kind of are starting to stall here, and maybe I didn’t do the thing that I was supposed to do, right. You can see how the withdrawers words just kind of dry up.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:13:51]:
So. Okay. So, Joey, I’m wondering if you could tell me, like, where’s the kind of the boiling point for you? Like, what happens right before you reach that point where you gotta leave me and you gotta go away from me? Like, is there something that’s happening between us that you just go, that’s it? You know, that’s the last bomb over. I’m done. I’m tapping out. Like, what’s going on right there?

George Faller [00:14:24]:
I try to hang in there, and I think I’m saying the right things. I’m trying to understand you. And then all of a sudden, it’s like, no, it’s not working. It’s, you know, you’re not calming down, only kind of getting more frustrated. You start bringing in different topics and.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:14:41]:
Like, oh, yeah, and I get this point.

George Faller [00:14:43]:
I’m like, holy shit, I can’t hang in here. Like, I guess the message I’m hearing is like, I’m just failing. I’m coming up short. You’re clearly not happy. And the worst is when I start to see the tears. It’s like, oh, now I made a cry. Now this is just bad. It’s only going to get worse.

George Faller [00:15:04]:
So I guess that’s like, I’m failing you. I’m disappointing you. I let you down.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:15:11]:
Yeah, I get that. And you’re right. I do do that. I throw in everything but the kitchen sink, trying to get you to see my point and find all those examples. And. And I guess so at some point, you, especially if I get emotional and you’ve said that when I cry, you’ve said it before, like, I can’t stand you crying, but it’s like inside you’re saying I’m failing. I’m not making you happy. And you start to feel bad, like.

George Faller [00:15:42]:
Yeah, I feel, like, defeated. I feel like I failed again. I don’t know how to fix it, and I guess I do. I start to feel like if I didn’t get away, if I have to sit in it, like I’m doing now, I guess I start to feel like not only am I failing, but I start to feel like I must be a failure. Just keeps happening. No matter how hard I try, I keep finding myself back in the dog house. Back. It must be me.

George Faller [00:16:07]:
It must be. I’m just not good at feelings. I’m not good at conversations. I’m not. I’m just broken.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:16:17]:
So, I mean, it’s like not only are you failing, but you start to feel like you are a failure and that you’re broken. Just this broken person. Not, not good at relationship and feelings and all that.

George Faller [00:16:31]:
Yeah.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:16:31]:
Not able to do that. I can see why you want to get away from that.

George Faller [00:16:37]:
Thank you.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:16:38]:
It’s pretty, pretty toxic stew there, so.

George Faller [00:16:41]:
That feels really good.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:16:42]:
You’re failing me and you’re a failure.

George Faller [00:16:44]:
Yeah, that feels really good. As we pull out at a role play, when Laurie says, I can see why you’d want to get away from this place. This is the place I don’t usually put words to, right? But in this place, it’s where I’m always alone. I never have success. When Laurie says to me, I can see you here now. I can see why you get away. This place sucks. I’m actually having success with co regulation.

George Faller [00:17:07]:
I’m not alone in this place. My body is getting a taste. And a lot of times withdrawers can’t trust it when they first start getting it. But if you keep this up, you’ll start to see how much easier it is for withdrawers to stay engaged. There’s no shortcuts to success. So let’s take a break and we’ll come back.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:17:25]:
Okay.

Advertisement by Dr. Laurie Watson [00:17:28]:
Foia is here to help. You have really good sex. I love their products. Y’all know I am about lotions and potions that enhance the sexual experience. And forea has some great stuff out there. Four years massage oil and their arousal oil are really good products that can help you spice things up up by slowing things down, massaging.

Advertisement by Dr. Laurie Watson [00:17:50]:
You know, I think it’s a really.

Advertisement by Dr. Laurie Watson [00:17:51]:
Good warm up for women, particularly to enjoy the sexual experience and four years intimacy massage oil takes your partnered intimacy to a new level. Their awaken oil basically makes you juicy before you start, which is so important to feel that arousal. It uses CBD and warming sensation and juicing organic botanicals. Four years awaken is proven to work and that’s based on a consumer perception study. 92% felt more aroused and 92% reached orgasm. So good. You have my full permission to try this. I fully endorse you to go ahead and treat yourself or your partner this summer to your juiciest and deepest sensual experience with a bottle of four.

Advertisement by Dr. Laurie Watson [00:18:36]:
A Foria is offering a special deal to our listeners. On your first order, visiting foriawellness.com/foreplay or use the code foreplay at checkout. That’s foriawellness.com/foreplay. for 20% off your first order, I recommend trying their massage oil combined with.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:18:57]:
Their awaken arouse oil.

Advertisement by Dr. Laurie Watson [00:18:58]:
You’ll thank me later, y’all. You always feel anxious because you’re spending so much money and you can’t relax. You guys stop feeling anxious about money that is being spent on subscriptions that you don’t use. Figure out your money. Figure out your budget by going to rocketmoney.com. rocketmoney.com helps you cancel easily subscriptions that you’re not using. Most of us subscribe to something and then we don’t even think about it after the first time we’ve used it. But many times we don’t need that subscription and we can waste up to $64 a month on average.

Advertisement by Dr. Laurie Watson [00:19:33]:
That’s crazy money. That’s a night out for date night. You guys use this simple app. With Rocket money, I have full control over my subscriptions and a clear view of my expenses. Rocket money will even help try to negotiate lower bills for you by up to 20%. They’ll deal with customer service for you. Rocket money has 5 million users and has saved a total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving their members up to $740 a year. When using all of the app’s features, stop wasting money.

Advertisement by Dr. Laurie Watson [00:20:08]:
Go to rocketmoney.com/foreplay. Rocketmoney.com foreplay use our code that helps us rocketmoney.com/foreplay.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:20:18]:
Many of you reach out to me for couples counseling and personalized help if you want to dramatically improve your intimacy in a short amount of time. I do offer privately scheduled couple counseling intensives. It’s like a private couple’s retreat. It’s twelve to 16 hours in Raleigh. Maybe you need to get through the emotional cycle where one of you is suffering, feeling rejected, or the other one is feeling abandoned, or maybe you need a jolt to your sex life. Together we can work through this. We set goals. We dive deep into your dynamics, figure out your negative cycle.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:20:51]:
We work through the sexual and the emotional problems, and then we often have a dramatic breakthrough. So you can call my office or you can contact me atawakeningcenter.org.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:21:07]:
Okay, so for me, you know, watching you do this, like, first of all, I appreciated the counsel, right. To go to the moment before you go away, that’s a real secret. And I think that’s a good tip for our listeners to get ahold of. It’s not just what happens when he does go away, but why he goes away. That’s really what we want to figure out. And then, I mean, it was like this long slide, this quick slide down, you know, it was like, I’m failing you. I am a failure.m always going to be in the doghouse. I’m powerless. Like, words that, while it’s really difficult to hear that because I want to jump in and I want to reassure him and say, no, no, no, that’s not what I meant. And all this, it’s like, oh, my God, this, you know, quick slide into this hellhole, the doghouse, you know, of, you know, I did…

George Faller [00:22:04]:
You did a great job of resisting all of those pulls to kind of make points and argue and shift the mission. You just stayed open. You stayed curious on me, because, again, you get to know me in a dog house. That’s, you know, that’s the opportunity in these conversations to not be alone in that place. And you did a great job of that.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:22:24]:
Yeah. Thank you. And I, and I, again, like, as a pursuer who wants to hear emotional language, I mean, sometimes we want to hear emotional language about how much they love us, but instead, this is the place, right? This is. These are emotions. And if I want to hear all the other stuff that goes on inside my partner’s mind, this is the essence of what he’s got to say. And he’s got to have somebody who cares about him and is with him right there, you know? So it is. I think it is hard to stop that part that wants to make it all okay. But like you said, you know, the less I did that, the more you opened up.

George Faller [00:23:09]:
Exactly. And that’s the good thing about having a model. There’s always an ouch underneath the protective move. I wouldn’t be walking away if something wasn’t going on. And a lot of times witchers have never talked about this, right? So giving them the space or trying to help them, it’s usually going to be something of, you know, I feel like I’m failing. I don’t know what to do. I feel helpless. You know, I feel deflated or discouraged or tired.

George Faller [00:23:35]:
Like, these are just classic feelings of when your attempts to make things work aren’t working. And then you get overwhelmed and got to stop pulling away. So let’s shift it up. Let’s work with the sexual withdraw. You want to be the sexual withdrawal? You want me to be the sexual withdraw?

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:23:53]:
Oh, I think I want you to be the sexual withdrawer. So I can see how this works. You ready to do that?

George Faller [00:24:02]:
Always ready to walk in the other worlds.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:24:05]:
Okay, let’s see.

George Faller [00:24:08]:
Right? I might be the sexual pursuer as Joey. But we’re going to play a joey. That’s a sexual withdrawal. Right? And that’s. There’s only two ways of dealing with threat. You either fight and push or you go away. We all do some of both, but we’re just trying to get some. Some typical examples.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:24:28]:
Okay, so I’m gonna be the sexual pursuer as Janie again. And I’m gonna bring it up.

George Faller [00:24:35]:
Well, maybe we’ll change. We always use Janie and Joey as the withdrawer. Sexually. I’m the pursuer, so I’ll be Mike. Who do you wanna be?

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:24:43]:
Okay, you be Mike. I’ll be Mary. Mike and Mary. Okay. Okay. So Mary is our sexual pursuer. So Mike, you know, I know we keep going through this where I want sex and it doesn’t make sense to me because I know you’re a guy and just seems like you would want it. But you’ve been, I guess, trying to tell me about what it’s like inside when I pressure you all the time.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:25:16]:
And I don’t know, I guess I’m just wondering about what happens inside you because I know what happens inside me. And we get into that nasty place. But you’ve also kind of tried to make clear to me that it’s, you know, it’s not about desire. Although it’s really confusing to me. Could you help me understand what happens for you?

George Faller [00:25:38]:
It’s confusing for me too, because, I mean, I know I’m attracted to you, right? But there’s something.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:25:44]:
Thank God for that.

George Faller [00:25:47]:
There’s something about just the pressure that I feel like, I know once we make love, we’re better. Like, things are so much easier. Like, I feel lighter. It’s. You feel so much better. So I know that, but it’s just something kind of blocks. It’s just this sense that, I don’t know, I think something’s gonna go wrong or, like, I’m gonna let you down or I’m gonna just do something wrong or I might lose my heart on. I mean, I guess I have a lot of worries, and it’s sometimes just easier to, like, I always want to do it tomorrow.

George Faller [00:26:22]:
Like, that’s what I tell myself, like, yeah, no, tomorrow be a good day. Tomorrow be a good day. It’s like, because I really want to, but there’s something about just doing it that just brings up a lot of. A lot of anxiety.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:26:34]:
You just told me, like, several things that you worry about. I. Yeah, I don’t worry like that, so, you know, because for me, it doesn’t have to be perfect just to get together. But I appreciate you listing all those things. Like, you are so worried, honey, about the things that could go wrong. And so I guess it does make sense that you’re thinking if I just put it off, you know, I’ll have more energy, it’ll be better. And. And when you tell me about that and you’re like, okay, you know, let’s do it tomorrow.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:27:16]:
That’s what’s going through your brain, is all these worries about what could go wrong, and then I wouldn’t be happy with you and anything else goes through your brain.

George Faller [00:27:26]:
I just. I feel like I need to be connected to you. It’s like when, like, that’s where it’s more spontaneous and it’s like, when I feel. It’s weird. Cause I know guys don’t normally talk.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:27:39]:
This way, but they don’t.

George Faller [00:27:40]:
That’s why sometimes I think maybe I’m, like the girl in a relationship I don’t, like, understand, but I do. I need to feel safe. I need to feel like we’re connected. I feel like we need. I need nice conversations. I need to feel like, you know, we’re not fighting, we’re not being critical. Like, I just. When I feel connected to you, it’s like my body opens and, like, it feels like I want to do it.

George Faller [00:28:02]:
But when I’m not feeling that, it’s. It’s that pressure that you’re saying, you know, you’re going to let her down. It’s. It’s. It just feels like work. Instead of it feeling like it’s just something I want to look forward to doing, I guess.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:28:17]:
Yeah. And I. I can see that because I. I know that’s happened a lot. Like, when we actually have time to spend together, you do seem to kind of approach me more, and we just move more smoothly into talking into the bedroom, and that’s really good. So I guess it’s like you’re safe. First of all, I don’t think you’re a girl. You definitely all man for me.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:28:48]:
But I appreciate that you have this part that wants to connect with me emotionally, and that’s what you’re saying. You need that. And then. And I know I approach you a lot of times. Cause I get connected sexually. So, you know, when we’re not connecting emotionally, I want to be in bed with you. But I guess that’s the hardest part.

George Faller [00:29:08]:
For me, is that I just feel like there’s something wrong with me. Like, I’m not, like, a typical guy. Like, why can’t I just be a caveman? Like, just do that. I just feel like I’m just failing you all the time. You deserve better than, you know, this pressured guy all the time. And I just. I guess I feel like I’m a failure sexually.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:29:30]:
Like. Like, when you say you’re the girl, you. You’re also saying you don’t feel like a guy, and that. That can’t feel good. Like. Like that. I don’t. I don’t see you that way.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:29:43]:
And sometimes you don’t feel that way. Like. Like you should be something different. You should be a caveman. You should be all about sex all the time. You shouldn’t need that. And I. That real men don’t.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:29:54]:
So you feel like you’re not a guy. I mean, that’s. That feels really painful to me when I suddenly hear it that way.

George Faller [00:30:03]:
I can’t believe I’m saying it out loud.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:30:06]:
Yeah.

George Faller [00:30:10]:
I don’t know. I don’t. See my friends. We go to the gym, them talking about this, so I just. Like my old world.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:30:16]:
Yeah. I can’t really see you talking to Billy about this. I get that. Yeah. And you’re probably right. You must feel very alone. Cause men don’t ever talk about it much and everything. All our guys guy friends are always talking about how they want their wives, and wives don’t want them, and so it must feel really.

George Faller [00:30:37]:
Exactly. So what’s wrong with me, then?

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:30:41]:
Yeah.

George Faller [00:30:42]:
You want to have sex. You’d have sex every day if it was, you know, so it’s hard to not feel like sex problems are all my fault. It’s kind of, it’s. I just, it’s my responsibility, and that just puts more pressure on me.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:31:01]:
That’s a lot of pressure.

George Faller [00:31:03]:
But I do. I do appreciate, like, I think you’re starting to get it. I don’t want to feel this way. I’m just not sure how to get out of this spot.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:31:16]:
I appreciate you telling me. I mean, I don’t know how we get out of it, but these aren’t things you tell me, and, you know, it’s not how I make sense of it. And so hearing this other part, it’s helpful. Let’s pull out of the role play for a minute. You know, I could just. It’s so tempting, right? As a pursuer, you just want to help. You want to be reassuring. It’s like, no, no, you’re really a man, you know, don’t feel like that.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:31:47]:
Right? I mean, that it’s just so easy to want to do that instead of staying with the pain of what it feels like. Like, ooh. You know, you don’t even feel like, you feel like a girl in this relationship. What’s that like? You know, I couldn’t even stay there in a role play for 5 seconds. You know, it was like I wanted to be reassuring. It’s hard. This is hard work, y’all, to stay with a partner’s pain.

George Faller [00:32:12]:
Naming the most common block is that your good intent wants to, you know, jump in there and reassure. But when you jump in, you stop the process of unfolding. And if you can just give the gift that Laurie did, which is permission, like, I see you. I get how you feel this way. It makes sense how you connect the dots this way. I don’t like that you do. But I get how you got there, and it does suck. I acknowledge it sucks.

George Faller [00:32:39]:
Now we’re not in. I’m not in. Suck alone. I got you with me and suck. Neither one of us know what the heck to do with it, but already my body is getting a taste of success with co regulation. Right. I’m not alone in this place. That’s a real big exception to the most of the time, I just go off and deal with this stuff on my own.

George Faller [00:32:56]:
If somebody’s willing to go there and let you in, like, that’s a big gift, just let them do that and just give them permission back. And that’s what Laurie did a great job of it.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:33:07]:
And think about the aloneness of this male sexual withdrawer. Like, he’s alone with this terror inside. I’m not much of a man, there’s nobody else that he talks to that is like him. I mean, it’s a really bad place. He doesn’t understand it. There’s so much pressure that he feels. I mean, it was toxic.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:33:31]:
And me as the partner, I’m about the only one available ever that’s going to hear that, you know, because his friends aren’t going to get it. You know, there’s nobody to talk to him about it. So I appreciate that it did. You could feel that, you know, my presence helped. And again, we’re going to help you in the school of love to, you know, know what to do next. But this is a really important part here of helping to access your partner’s vulnerability by staying present. You got to know the cycle. You got to be patient.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:34:05]:
You got to not do what I just did, which is jump in with helpfulness, and you got to go to the dark place. So we’re getting you there. Thanks for listening.

George Faller [00:34:16]:
Keep it hot and get to that vulnerability, baby.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:34:19]:
Okay, so tell us about your cutting edge training that you’re doing on success and vulnerability.

George Faller [00:34:25]:
Laurie., we just keep pushing it. Coming with a new module on the playbook of a pursuer, playbook of a witcher, really practical moment by moment moves of what a therapist can use. And we’re so focused on what’s happening in session enough. There’s talk about theories and these global things I think most therapists are looking for. What do I do in this moment? Give me a tool, George. So that’s what we’re trying to do.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:34:51]:
That’s awesome. I am so glad you guys that are doing this work. I think it helps us be organized to see you do it. You do demos, you do explanations, teaching. It really is interactive, and I think that so many trainings that we sit through don’t give us an opportunity for that. So what you’re doing is really important.

George Faller [00:35:10]:
No. We try to emphasize the teach it, show it, do it model of learning. You need to have some ideas, so we try to teach those, and then we try to show what it looks like implementing those ideas. But most importantly, you now gotta practice it. That’s how they become yours. And that’s what we want our listeners and watchers to do and become their own moves.

Dr. Laurie Watson [00:35:29]:
Find George and his teaching at success and vulnerability.com.

George Faller [00:35:33]:
Call in your questions to the Foreplay question voicemail. Dial 833-My4play. That’s eight three three, my, the number four, play. And we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by foreplay media.