Will sex ever happen between us? If this has been a sticking point in your relationship then this episode is for you! Join our hosts today as we talk through what it looks like when the sexual withdrawer is re-engaged. The negative cycle is de-escalated, a new positive cycle has been created and there is enough safety to uncover the wants and needs of the sexual relationship.
Give this show a listen to hear what the conversation between a de-escalated and more secure couple sounds like and how to make this happen. Our hosts remind you that pressure serves no purpose in the bedroom and a truly de-escalated couple will keep pressure around sex low and slow. It’s important to remember that sometimes we have to go slow, to go fast. Make sure to give us a rate and review and keep it hot, y’all!
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Transcript
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Laurie Watson [00:01:52]:
The following content is not suitable for children.
Laurie Watson [00:01:54]:
Welcome to the School of Love.
Laurie Watson [00:01:56]:
Let’s do it. Our chance to break down the therapy process so you can do it at home without a therapist.
Laurie Watson [00:02:04]:
Okay, so now we’re going to do the Hollywood ending that includes the kiss, right? Because we’re going to talk about how we get people happy sexually. And you know, so many people, they’re like, okay, give me the answer. This is why I’m listening to your podcast. Like the Sex Answer for Couples.
Laurie Watson [00:02:23]:
The Sex Answer for Couples. Listen up.
Laurie Watson [00:02:29]:
Welcome to Foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Lori Watson, your sex Therapist.
Laurie Watson [00:02:33]:
And I’m Julie, George Fowler, your couples therapist.
Laurie Watson [00:02:36]:
We are here to talk about sex.
Laurie Watson [00:02:38]:
Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind and their hearts.
Laurie Watson [00:02:46]:
And we have a little bit of fun doing it.
Laurie Watson [00:02:48]:
Right G listen and let’s change some relationships.
Laurie Watson [00:02:51]:
Again, we want to thank our patrons for supporting us. George and I are taking on new work. We’re teaching together and now we’ve decided to write a book together and we’re so excited. There’s a lot of interest in this book and so. But it’s going to take a lot of time. And if you want to support our mission and help us, you can do a one time gift if you’d like. And we just appreciate all of you who have been with us for so long supporting us. You can find us on fourplaysextherapy.com and just go ahead and look at the patron options.
Laurie Watson [00:03:27]:
And we would be so grateful for your support as we have been grateful for those of you who have been with us really since the very beginning.
Laurie Watson [00:03:35]:
We do get a lot of requests and always feel blessed that we can help those in need. So I was over recently in the Ukraine and we get asked to go to Israel, what’s happening and support them or people in Gaza or people with a hurricane. So there’s so many people in need and you know, that don’t have resources and you know, we’re committed towards this mission of helping people love better. So, you know, you’re stretched thin, but your support certainly makes a big difference. Difference.
Laurie Watson [00:04:03]:
That’s right. We both try to keep this podcast free and, and we’re all over the world helping therapists and people, you know, love other people better. So.
Laurie Watson [00:04:16]:
Yeah, and people know in times of crisis is where we need relationships and love even more. So this world’s at a stressed out place and it’s a good sign that people are reaching out for support. Yeah, right. And that’s why we need an army of people to kind of spread this message so lots of people can kind of offer and again continue to build that momentum.
Laurie Watson [00:04:38]:
Right. Okay. So let’s talk and help people. This is, this is the moment that everybody’s been waiting for is this final part where the brain changes, where the cycle changes from negative to positive, where sexually things come online again and it’s really the person who is withdrawing who is going to come forward and talk about not just what they feel, which we have been teaching you how to talk about that for some time now, but also kind of getting in touch with what they need to feel better, what their partner can give them. And then we’re going to also talk about that withdrawing partner sort of figuring out sexually what they need.
Laurie Watson [00:05:23]:
Yeah, this is that Hollywood moment. And for these sexual withdrawers, they need reassurance, just like we talked about last time. Right. They need to actually ask for help in these places. They tend to hide, they roll over, they don’t want to deal with. Right. They take space to self soothe the pain of the disconnection sexually. So we’re going to talk about this in two steps.
Laurie Watson [00:05:48]:
They’re going to need to ask for help in kind of getting the reassurance with those fears. And then once that happens, the second step is, all right, now that I’ve discharged a lot of that negativ, it frees up that energy to get curious and to explore, like who am I sexually and what do I want sexually? So there are two wants here. Like what do I want as far as reassurance? And then what do I actually want? To be the sexual person, you know, I’m, I am. Right. And that takes some work.
Laurie Watson [00:06:22]:
Scary stuff, scary stuff.
Laurie Watson [00:06:25]:
Pretty exciting, right? To know that if you do this work, you’re going to know yourself and your partner better. And I again, I want to emphasize that so often sexual problems is seen as an individual problem, as something within the person. And what you start to see in these conversations, like when you could ask for help, it’s actually through the space together the two people that you create much more sexual freedom and energy. Right. It’s so often the block is the pressures and the stress and the fears that happen interpersonally between people. Therefore, the solution becomes what happens between people. And I just think that’s a great.
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Laurie Watson [00:08:20]:
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Laurie Watson [00:08:51]:
I think so too. And it’s so different than the advice that is out there, right. That the low libido person just has to somehow or another create libido out of the air. But I think what we’ve been saying for so many months in our school of love is that sexual problems are really co created between two people and that the solution lies between two people. Everybody has a part and everybody has to do a little something and. And this is the something that the sexual withdrawer needs to do. And again, being a sexual withdrawer doesn’t mean you don’t like sex. It just means that positionally in the cycle, you’re the one who kind of goes away and turns away.
Laurie Watson [00:09:33]:
And there’s good reasons that you do that.
Laurie Watson [00:09:34]:
Yeah. A lot of times those reasons are influenced by the emotional cycle. Right. When you don’t feel close and you feel like your partner’s not interested and you’re not having conversations like that distance emotionally impacts you sexually.
Laurie Watson [00:09:49]:
Yeah, exactly. This is complicated. We know that because, you know, the emotional cycle impacts the sexual cycle and vice versa. You know, sometimes you’re with a partner who only gets safe when they have sex.
Laurie Watson [00:10:06]:
Right.
Laurie Watson [00:10:06]:
And so it’s kind of hard to comprehend that two people end up together with such different needs. They both need something from each other and it’s relatively the same sort of stuff. But this is the moment that we’re asking you to kind of come forward and think about what it’s felt like, what your fears have been and what you need to alleviate those fears. What your partner can say or do for you at that moment. And then we’re going to stretch even further because in the sexual cycle, if it doesn’t become sexual, it’s not really healed. So we want you to access the part inside that. What would it. What would you need to be your erotic self? What would help? What do you want? And, you know, I have worked with lots and lots of sexual withdrawals over the years.
Laurie Watson [00:10:59]:
And this is a tough question. It’s like, wow, I’ve never even stopped to think what I want. I’m just involved in this struggle with my partner who seems to want sex more than I do. You know, what do I want? That’s. That’s never been on the table. And so this is your moment to start thinking about that.
Laurie Watson [00:11:15]:
Just to repeat it, because it’s so important. I mean, last time we talked about asking for what you want, what you need in this place of pain and fear and emotional cycle and how hard that is and how risky that is. But when we receive love and reassurance in these places where we never get it, it causes that limbic revision that creates the secure attachment that we’re really looking forward to, knowing our moments of work, greatest weakness and fear that somebody has our back. The world’s a much safer place. So in a sexual cycle, we’re doing the same thing. We’re needing reassurance with our worst fears that get triggered in the bedroom. And we need to ask for help in those places. Do I feel broken? Do I feel like I’ve had.
Laurie Watson [00:11:54]:
We’ll talk about that. But this actually, the sexual cycle has a second piece. A second ask for what you want, which once you get the emotional reassurance and it discharges that. What do you want as a sexual being that you tend to not ask for? That would bring up higher levels of engagement and better positive affect because you want more. And that’s such a beautiful thing to watch sexually. So those are. You’re going to ask for what you want twice here.
Laurie Watson [00:12:26]:
Okay. And we’re going to role play this together. Maybe we should break a little early because this is going to take time. I get to be the sexual withdrawer.
Laurie Watson [00:12:36]:
Yes, you do.
Laurie Watson [00:12:38]:
I’m just vulnerable. Okay. Okay. Will do.
Laurie Watson [00:12:44]:
This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try@betterhelp.com foreplay and get on your way to being your best self, y’. All. You need therapy. I mean, therapy is like the bird’s eye view on your life. I’ve been in therapy most of my life and have benefited so much. Just in terms of self regulation, healing from the past. I really encourage you to do this.
Laurie Watson [00:13:08]:
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Laurie Watson [00:13:33]:
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Laurie Watson [00:14:47]:
It is my favorite. So George, let’s be Joey and Janie and I’m going to be your partner. And let’s just say that there’s been a long term struggle with not enough sex as far as you’re concerned. Maybe not enough, you know, exciting sex to boot. And so you’ve been frustrated with me, but we’ve worked through a lot of it at this point and let’s talk.
Laurie Watson [00:15:16]:
About what we work through emotionally. I do know what it’s like as a withdrawer to want to roll away and not face something because it feels safer. And I’ve learned to listen to those fears and let Janie in. And I’ve been able to ask for help in this place and I’ve had success with that. And Janie’s been able to talk about her fears when she gets rejected emotionally and she’s asked for help. So we have a level of safety that we’ve never had. And a lot of couples are trying to have this conversation without that safety. And that’s a lot harder to do.
Laurie Watson [00:15:48]:
Right. You want to be able to feel like I can ask for help and I could listen to what my body needs. So I just want you all to think we’ve already had a lot of those conversations. So now we’re going. We’ve made success an emotional cycle. Now we’re going to go to the sexual cycle. Right. And Chanie has talked about some of her fears of failure.
Laurie Watson [00:16:09]:
I felt shed some of my fears that I feel rejected. Like we’ve been responding to each other, but we never ask for help in this place. And remember, asking for help is the positive cycle. It’s how couples learned how to repair this. So that’s what we’re doing now. We’re going to see which are ask for help.
Laurie Watson [00:16:27]:
Yeah. Okay. So since I’m emotional pursuer, but a sexual withdraw, it’s probably not as difficult for me to start this conversation because I’m used to coming forward and wanting to talk about problems. So I’m going to go for it. So, Joey, I’ve been thinking a lot about what we’re learning and I like.
Laurie Watson [00:16:50]:
How you say Joey.
Laurie Watson [00:16:54]:
Nice. Yeah. Things have been really sweet and you’ve been really sweet and I appreciate, you know, the support that you’ve been giving me. And I know that sex has been a long term difficulty for us. And, you know, we’ve made it 22 years and I appreciate that. And you know, I. When I think about our sexual cycle and what we go through, I think I, you know, I end up in this place that I’m not meeting your needs. I get really afraid about that.
Laurie Watson [00:17:37]:
I get really, you know, afraid about how that’s going to impact you. And I kind of start to worry you’re going to leave me. And then I think I’m the one who caused it all. It’s all my fault. You know, I just, I’ve driven you away because I haven’t been sexually responsive to you. And I know it’s how you love. I get it. I, you know, we’ve had so many conversations about this.
Laurie Watson [00:18:05]:
I really do get it now, I think.
Laurie Watson [00:18:11]:
You know, but I just, like, I just wanna. Because I do feel like we’ve shifted in that area. And, like, it is definitely not your fault. It’s the cycle’s fault. We fall into. Right? It’s like, I wouldn’t want to have sex too, with all that pressure on you and, you know, me just going so quick and not knowing how to touch you the way. I mean, there was so many things that set your body up, not engage. And I feel terrible that you get blamed for that.
Laurie Watson [00:18:35]:
Like, it’s something within you, and it’s really something that we created that we didn’t know we would create. And so I do feel like less. Less anger towards you, but more towards the cycle that has screwed us up. And I think we’re starting to kick its ass.
Laurie Watson [00:18:50]:
I really appreciate you. I feel like you just got underneath this and shouldered it with me, and that feels so good. I don’t feel as much to blame, and I really appreciate that. I think that the worry is, I guess, that I’m not sexual enough and that I’m kind of like, not woman enough. And I get really afraid of that. And just sometimes I feel inside, you know, while I. I appreciate you, you know, taking responsibility here. It’s like, I guess centrally, I think, oh, my gosh, you know, I’m really not a very sexual creature.
Laurie Watson [00:19:41]:
And then. And then I think I’m just, like, broken, you know, because I know women are supposed to be, and women are supposed to love it and all this stuff. And I don’t know, I guess I want this to be different, and I’m committed to this being different, but I think inside I just worry that I’m really not kind of a real sexual woman. And I get afraid of that. And then I feel so, like just kind of not good enough for you, you know, like all what you just said just proves to me that you’re really trying. And then I just think I’m probably not good enough for you. And I’m. I’m not the person you need to hear.
Laurie Watson [00:20:34]:
I want to help you. What can I do when you feel broken, you feel like you’re not a woman?
Laurie Watson [00:20:41]:
I guess I just. I need you to tell me that you do, you know, want me and love me and that I’m, you know, I’m your woman and that we’re going to work it out together. You’re not going to leave me because of, you know, in this process.
Laurie Watson [00:21:03]:
I appreciate you letting me enter this place because, I mean, I try to show you I want you all the time, but I do it in the wrong ways and like to have this fear that deep down I wouldn’t want you because you’re not a woman. You’re not a broke, you’re broken. I mean, that is. I mean, that’s. Feels heartbreaking that you go there and like. Yeah, I definitely can let you know that I do want you and I don’t see you that way. And it’s okay that you feel that way. I mean, we get older, we change.
Laurie Watson [00:21:34]:
It’s who I love is not, you know, that superficial. I mean, I love your depth, I love your being, I love your soul. And. And that’s what I want to connect with. So I want to be with you when you feel awesome and I want to be with you when you feel bad about yourself because I don’t want you to be alone in that place, you know, and we don’t need to have sex. I mean, whatever we need. I just want you to know that I can love you in this place where you feel broken.
Laurie Watson [00:21:59]:
Wow. That actually feels really good. I mean, it does that you love my soul and you love me like the essence of me. And, you know, I. I’ve been so performance driven all my life. I just can’t. It’s kind of hard to believe it, but when you say it, it just feels so real and, you know, I do believe it. I want to believe it.
Laurie Watson [00:22:25]:
I’m hopeful in what you’re saying. Yeah. Thank you. I. I kind of feel like released inside a little bit. Just cool. I don’t know, like. Like this.
Laurie Watson [00:22:39]:
This thing that is, you know, dragging me down all the time. So afraid all the time. Just. It feels a bit broken and I feel more free.
Laurie Watson [00:22:50]:
That feels so awesome. I can see you’re more relaxed and, you know, I. I want to be there. I want to take some of that weight off you. I want to throw it to the side, you know, I like seeing a part of you that’s looser and, you know, just not worrying about things. It’s really awesome to see.
Laurie Watson [00:23:11]:
Yeah. Sometimes I imagine if I were free like this, like what I would be like in the bedroom, you know, just if I could hang on to this, you know, I. I know like. Like the other time when you were saying, you know, you like me wearing trashy clothes and, you know, I was raised to be so prim and not show my boobs and, you know, all that stuff and it’s just. It’s like such a big ask, but it’s like I imagine if I were just free and at least just with you, you know, I would. I would dress it up. I Would, like, I would show myself off to you, and that’s. That’s, like, who I would want to be.
Laurie Watson [00:23:52]:
I. I think about, you know, like, if I did that, though, like, I. I would want your natural reaction, but I would. I’d be afraid that it would be a day late and a dollar short, you know, Like, I just want. I would want your reassurance that if I start changing, you’re not going to, like, wonder why I didn’t change earlier or. I don’t do that kind of stuff.
Laurie Watson [00:24:19]:
I don’t have expectations. I’m just enjoying you. I get really excited to just see Janie being curious about herself. Right. To not know and to want to explore that, you know, it’s beautiful to see that you. You don’t know, and it’s okay not to know. And that’s. That’s the.
Laurie Watson [00:24:39]:
What freedom is like being a kid again. We just exploring because we don’t know what we’re going to find and that you’re touching that, to know that that’s what you want in the bedroom. Like, some. Just some freedom to try some different things out. I think that’s so awesome.
Laurie Watson [00:24:55]:
I would like to. You know, I think the struggle that we’ve been in and all of that, the weight that I have felt, the fear that I have felt, you know, and it hasn’t all come from you. It’s come from my background and all of this. I just. I would like to. I think I would. I think I would kind of just need your support in my experimentation, you know?
Laurie Watson [00:25:23]:
Yeah.
Laurie Watson [00:25:24]:
Like to try new things.
Laurie Watson [00:25:26]:
In the past, I could be impatient and judgmental. And so again, when I hear you saying is just want to make sure I’m getting it, you just need me to kind of give you success, kind of affirm what you’re doing, to know.
Laurie Watson [00:25:42]:
That it’s risky, silly, or stupid or if that’s not what you like.
Laurie Watson [00:25:46]:
But to be stupid together and silly together is the same as being broken together. I just want to be with you, whatever it is. So it sounds fun to me that you want to do it in a goofy way. I’m on board.
Laurie Watson [00:25:57]:
Okay. All right. That feels a little bit safer. I appreciate that this risking stuff is actually making me feel good. I didn’t think it would. I was afraid to do it. But I so appreciate you sitting in this conversation with me and telling me that you love me and that it’s me, the essence of me, and that you have space for me to try things out. Coca Cola for the big.
Laurie Watson [00:26:30]:
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Laurie Watson [00:27:26]:
That’s good.
Laurie Watson [00:27:28]:
I love seeing you free, and again, I apologize for the pressure we’ve put on each other. But to see you free of it a little bit, you know, that to me feels like I’m seeing the real you. And that’s kind of gets me excited.
Laurie Watson [00:27:44]:
That’s nice. Like that.
Laurie Watson [00:27:46]:
All right.
Laurie Watson [00:27:47]:
Okay. Okay. So an example of a couple who is, you know, safer, much, much safer. And the sexual withdrawer now coming forward, asking for what she needs, revealing kind of this. This deep, dark place. And then what she needs out of it is the love to be seen as enough. And her partner responds with deep, you know, sort of deep sentiment about her goodness and who she is and that he loves her. And it’s not about performance anymore.
Laurie Watson [00:28:27]:
It’s like, wow, so freeing. Can you imagine a sexual withdrawal getting that message? Talk about connection.
Laurie Watson [00:28:35]:
Again, this is not just a win for the sexual withdrawal, like in the role of the pursuer. I love the best part of me being able to come out in this space, this space of loving each other is how both people feel the most safe and secure. So, and the good news here, if you’re a sexual withdrawer, I mean, you notice, Janie, that they’re tapping into the emotional pursuicide of them. Typically that does know how to have some of these conversations. So, you know, they start off with some success because they’re asking for help in these fearful places, which they have a little bit of practice, and it makes it a little bit safer to go to that newer place, which is, all right, now you got to ask for help. What do you want sexually? Which is a harder conversation. But you need the resource on that first ask to really set up that second ask.
Laurie Watson [00:29:26]:
Right. It was ironically, the acceptance of no matter if I changed or not, you know, it was sort of like, I love you, end of the story, period. That also freed up this energy Sexually. For her to say, well, now that you put it that way, you know, I. I think I need this sexually, you know.
Laurie Watson [00:29:49]:
Oh, we really welcome our feedback from our listeners here because this is a new area. There’s not a lot written about these deeper conversations around asking for help sexually. I think Lori and I are in the forefront of trying to figure this out and kind of teach it and put it out there. But this is where we need your feedback to say, hey, actually, this worked. This didn’t work. What about this? Another layer, like, let’s just help each other kind of grow these conversations. Because most of us are not talking sexually about what we need. You know, we comes out as criticism.
Laurie Watson [00:30:21]:
I need you to do more, but this is about what you need personally. And how do you ask for that from an I place instead of, you know, what you want your partner to do differently?
Laurie Watson [00:30:30]:
Yeah. And I would love to hear from you if. If you’ve had this conversation, this conversation of, you know, being a withdrawer and asking your partner for what you need and then. And being a sexual withdrawer and doing both what you need emotionally and what you need sexually. You know, we’d love to hear from you how it went, what happened. That kind of feedback, too, keeps us going. We appreciate the monetary support, but we appreciate just the fact that, you know, how is it working in your lives? Hearing that helps us feel like we’re talking to more than just each other in a closet, which is where we’re at kind of right now.
Laurie Watson [00:31:09]:
Yeah, it’s always so rewarding when we get these emails or how something works and changes relationships, and even when something doesn’t work, as we grow from that. So.
Laurie Watson [00:31:20]:
Okay, thanks for listening.
Laurie Watson [00:31:23]:
Keep it hot all.
Laurie Watson [00:31:25]:
So some of you are interested in our work. We want to tell you where we are, what we’re doing.
Laurie Watson [00:31:29]:
In January 23rd to 25th, we’re coming to Nashville in person to do three days of really kind of breaking down this process. And again, I think this should be mandatory for all therapists to just kind of have more confidence in knowing what to do and work with the sexual cycle.
Laurie Watson [00:31:45]:
Yeah, we’ve already had lots of signups for that. By the way, George, people are also taking advantage of that early bird special. You know, we want supervisors to come. We’re giving half off to the supervisors. So please join us so that we.
Laurie Watson [00:31:58]:
Can kind of get on the same.
Laurie Watson [00:32:00]:
Page and understand and develop EFT further. There’s going to be two days of lecture and exercises, and then a day maybe with a live and, you know.
Laurie Watson [00:32:10]:
Working on your tapes and your stuck.
Laurie Watson [00:32:12]:
Places and we’re going to go down to the honky tonk and have dinner.
Laurie Watson [00:32:16]:
Together and have some fun.
Laurie Watson [00:32:19]:
Have some fun.
Laurie Watson [00:32:20]:
Have some fun. Yeehaw.
Laurie Watson [00:32:22]:
Yeehaw. And for all you listeners, again, if you have a community and you want Laura and I to come out and give a specialized training on sex, and again, I think this is so important for anybody seeing couples, then, you know, reach out to us and let’s continue to spread this message. Yeehaw. Call in your questions to the Foreplay question. Voicemail. Dial 833MY4PLAY. That’s 833MY, the number four play. And we’ll use the questions for our Mailbag episodes.
Laurie Watson [00:32:52]:
All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.
Laurie Watson [00:33:02]:
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