In today’s episode Laurie and George sit down with fellow Sex and Relationship Expert, Dr. Emily Jamea for a conversation on sex in the flow state and the secrets to great sex found in her book, ‘Anatomy of Desire: Five Secrets to Create Connection and Cultivate Passion.’
Dr. Jamea is also the host of the podcast ‘Love and Libido’ and is eager to share her knowledge with our Foreplay audience. You will be fascinated to hear all that is happening to the brain and body during sex and how couples can use this information to get unstuck from the monotony and into a state of flow. Our hosts and Dr. Jamea discuss the five secrets every couple needs to know to improve their sex lives. Sensuality, curiosity, adaptability, vulnerability and attunement are the pillars that create and cultivate intimacy, passion and a truly transformative sexual relationship.
Want more from Dr. Jamea? You can purchase her book on her website www.emilyjamea.com Keep it hot y’all!
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Transcript
Ollie Advertisement [00:00:00]:
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Dr. Emily Jamea [00:01:02]:
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Laurie Watson [00:01:49]:
The following content is not suitable for children.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:01:54]:
Welcome to Foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Lori Watson, your sex therapist.
Laurie Watson [00:01:59]:
And I’m George Fowler, your couples therapist.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:02:02]:
We are here to talk about sex.
Laurie Watson [00:02:03]:
Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind and their hearts.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:02:11]:
And we have a little bit of fun doing it right G listen and.
Laurie Watson [00:02:15]:
Let’S change some relationships.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:02:17]:
Hey y’. All. We are so happy to welcome Dr. Emily Jamia who is an author and the reason we’re having her on our podcast today is because she’s written Anatomy of Five Secrets to Lasting Intimacy which is a on the USA Today Bestseller list. So we want you to run out and get this book. You can order it everywhere. Amazon certainly, and we will link you on our site so that you can find anatomy and desire and welcome, Emily.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:02:44]:
Thank you. Lori and George, so happy to be here with y’ all today.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:02:47]:
Thank you.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:02:48]:
It’s nice to be in good company where I can just say, y’, all.
Laurie Watson [00:02:51]:
Y’ all coming from this New York. I don’t know how they got y’ all out of me, but I got.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:02:56]:
I got Lori on the y’ all team over here.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:02:59]:
Where, where, where do you live?
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:03:01]:
I am in Houston, but I grew up in Tennessee, so it’s been y’ all my whole life.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:03:07]:
Nice. Okay, I’m in north.
Laurie Watson [00:03:08]:
I want to y’ all get into these five secrets looking for. For tools and, you know, vantage points of trying to create change. So what do you got?
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:03:19]:
Yeah, tell us about these secrets.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:03:21]:
Oh, my gosh. You know, y’ all are sex and relationship therapists as well, you know, and. And so I think you could relate to this. You know, I’ve been doing this work for 15, you know, could help people get to the point where their emotional connection was stronger, help people overcome things like ED or difficulty with orgasm, and help people, you know, kind of mitigate the difference in desire. But I noticed over time that I would get people coming back into my office, usually for their, you know, two month accountability session, saying that they still wanted, you know, more intensity, more passion. And, you know, they would talk about sex that they had in the honeymoon stage. And I would, you know, remind them that that’s a temporary yet intoxicating mix of neurochemicals, but it’s not sustainable, you know, But I knew what they meant, and I started paying closer attention to the language that they were using to describe the sex they wanted in words like, you know, effortless. I want to be lost in the moment.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:04:26]:
I want the world around me to disappear. And I’m like, they’re talking about flow, state, and, you know, so for people listening who don’t know what that is, it’s when we are engaged in activity in which we experience that loss of space and time, complete attention, total absorption, sense of merger. And, you know, I was familiar with flow, and I didn’t, though, remember really learning much about it as it relates to sex. So I went into the literature to see what I could dig up and came up with nothing. I mean, there was really no research out there looking at the link between flow and great sex. So I initiated a research study and published my findings. And, you know, the first of it was just the quantitative data, but I called up my research participants and had really long conversations with them about specifically what they did to get into flow during Sex. And it was through those conversations that these five themes, or secrets, if you will, emerged.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:05:29]:
Nice, nice. So informational interviewing. Right. And really getting into the meat of what people maybe have answered. Just in data. Now you’re hearing them.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:05:41]:
Exactly.
Laurie Watson [00:05:42]:
Yeah.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:05:42]:
I mean, I. I called up the people, you know, specifically who had the highest scores, you know, the ones who were getting into flow, who had the highest levels of sexual satisfaction. And, you know. Yeah, I talked to them, you know, for hours about not just their, you know, individual history and background, but also a lot about their relationship. And then, of course, specifically their sex lives. And. And that also kind of helped map out the book because within each secret, I talk about, you know, first what it is, what the barrier or inhibitor to it is. And then we talk about how to cultivate it within oneself, the relationship, and then ultimately in your sex life.
Laurie Watson [00:06:23]:
Did you interview Sting and Trudy with their eight hours of tantra sex?
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:06:28]:
I did not.
Laurie Watson [00:06:30]:
All right, so we got to get them on.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:06:32]:
Yeah.
Laurie Watson [00:06:34]:
First, do you remember, how do you pronounce the guy’s name? Micaiah Chidson.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:06:39]:
I mean, it’s Mihai. Chicks and Mihai.
Laurie Watson [00:06:43]:
All right, There you go.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:06:45]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Laurie Watson [00:06:46]:
That’s such a cool, that state of flow in whatever area of life that we’re in. Right.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:06:50]:
That’s the author that wrote State of Flow.
Laurie Watson [00:06:52]:
That’s. Yeah. The founder of the flow theory, which is. I. I’ve never even thought about that. That. That has never been applied to sex. Because we do know great sex is about letting go and surrendering and being in a present moment, all the flow stuff.
Laurie Watson [00:07:07]:
But I’ve never made that length. That’s pretty awesome.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:07:10]:
Yeah, I know. I was really surprised. You know, I found one paper that had kind of a small sample size of people in the BDS and M community. And, you know, we can learn a lot from people in that community because the flow elements are there. There’s a lot of preparation and planning that goes into creating those intense scenes. And this paper was looking more about this kind of state of transcendence that people get into and kind of the high they feel when they’re in a BDS and M scene. But I’m like, you know, what about, you know, people who maybe are more vanilla or, you know, who aren’t gonna, like, you know, go to the extent or to the extremes to kind of get into flow with BDS and M? I’m like, there’s gotta be something to this for the rest of us. And I found out that there was.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:07:56]:
Nice start five.
Laurie Watson [00:07:59]:
Yeah.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:07:59]:
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Dr. Laurie Watson [00:08:37]:
It’s cold and I cannot wait. Quince has something for everyone. Every piece is made with premium materials, without ethical trusted factories and price far below what other luxury brands charge. And their craftsmanship really shows in every detail. The stitching, the fit, the drape. It’s elevated, timeless and made to wear on repeat. Find gifts so good that you want to keep them with Quince. Go to quince.comforeplay for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:09:05]:
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Dr. Emily Jamea [00:09:20]:
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Dr. Laurie Watson [00:09:49]:
How do they do it? How do people get into this state of thought?
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:09:54]:
The five secrets, I’ll just go through them quickly are sensuality, curiosity.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:09:59]:
Yes.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:09:59]:
Adaptability, vulnerability and attunement. And what I thought, you know, as.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:10:06]:
I speak in our language. You’re speaking our language.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:10:09]:
Exactly. So eft, you know, when I step back and look at these secrets, the other thing that I found really exciting about them is that we’re born with all of them. You know, if you look at babies, kids, like we are all born sensual, curious, adaptable, vulnerable and with the ability to attune, you know, we have mirror neurons in our brain that are designed to, you know, read the room, to read other people’s energy. And so I thought to myself, you know, this is not about becoming someone we’re not or, you know, pushing ourselves too far outside of our comfort zone. It’s really about reconnecting with qualities that are already there within us and, you know, that we’ve maybe lost touch with for various reasons over time.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:10:56]:
Our ruby slippers. We’re wearing them. We’ve got them.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:11:00]:
Exactly.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:11:03]:
Yeah.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:11:03]:
Yes, yes. I love that.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:11:05]:
Yeah.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:11:06]:
You know, the sensuality. The first secret is it’s all about embodiment. You know, the word mindfulness is such a buzzword. And of, of course, I think mindfulness is wonderful and we have great research. I love Lori Brato’s work. And it’s a, it’s an important first step, I think, in, in moving past dissatisfaction or dysfunction. But I think to take sex to kind of the, the next level, we’ve got to become more embodied. Because mindfulness, you know, if you think about it, it’s a very active process.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:11:38]:
You know, you’re noticing the intrusive thought, you’re bringing your attention back to the body and trying to focus on the sensations. It’s sort of this kind of ping pong effect. People who are embodied, though, don’t really go through that process. It’s almost like the mind quiets down, which we see happen in a flow state. We actually experience this phenomenon called transient hypofrontality, which means the prefrontal cortex part of the brain quiets down and.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:12:07]:
Oh, now wait, wait, now you are turning George on. All that kind of talk about the.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:12:11]:
Brain.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:12:13]:
Like it’s his love language.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:12:16]:
Yeah. Okay.
Laurie Watson [00:12:17]:
Plus, I like the idea of Lori’s brain slowing down. So that’s like these states that you’re talking about like this. So many people are distracted. How do we help them but keep going?
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:12:26]:
Exactly, exactly. So, yeah, when we experience this transient hypofrontality and, and the prefrontal cortex, which is where that kind of chitter chatter and our sense of self, our identity, our, you know, higher order thinking, rational thought, all of those kind of brain processes go quiet. And so we’re not using more of the brain when we’re in flow, we’re actually using less of it, which is what makes it so wonderful.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:12:56]:
So less, less of our thinking, more of our experiencing sensuality in our body and being present in the body is. Okay, neat.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:13:04]:
Exactly, exactly. And you know, I could go on about kind of the, the brain chemistry changes George, if you like that, you know, it’s. It’s interesting, you know, when we are in the honeymoon stage, the neurochemicals that we get are of course, you know, dopamine. We get some norepinephrine. If, you know, we’re having sex and touching a lot, we get that oxytocin, but our serotonin levels drop. You know, that’s what makes people so obsessive about new partners and kind of anxious in the early stages of a relationship. When we’re in a flow state, though, we get that norepinephrine, we get the dopamine for having sex, we get that oxytocin. We also get a chemical called anandamide, which gives us that sort of charged up feeling and helps heighten focus.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:13:51]:
We get epinephrine, which is like an analgesic. That’s why people who are in a flow state will forget the pain that they’re in. You know, I talked to people who had, you know, were chronic pain sufferers or had major health issues who were still able to get into this state during sex. And we get a boost in serotonin instead of a dip. So you get a much more potent neurochemical cocktail theoretically, when you’re in a flow state during sex than you do in the honeymoon stage. Which is why when people come in longing for the honeymoon stage, I’m like, forget that. Like, we can do so much better. And in fact, none of my research participants talked about honeymoon stage sex being the best of their relationship.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:14:34]:
You know, I talked to people who had been in relationships anywhere between, like five years up to 40 plus years, and not one said, oh, the best was the sex we had in the first, you know, six to 12 months.
Laurie Watson [00:14:47]:
Can you mix that all up in a spray bottle so people can spray it up their nose and get into these?
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:14:51]:
Exactly, yeah. Yeah, I’m working on my patent.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:14:55]:
So what is it? What is it look like? What does that feel like if you’re in that state? Like, I’m trying to. I remember I was. My husband and I were dancing and, you know, the music and all of this. We were at a. We were at a country sort of bar place and dancing, and I remember being really turned on. And then when we came home and made love, it was. It was kind of like this lost experience, you know, I think that’s what you’re saying is I do remember just, you know, and I wasn’t. I don’t think I.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:15:30]:
I don’t even think I drank at that point. So it was it was a while back, but I’m just, That’s the image that came to my mind as you were describing this, like. Oh, yeah, like totally in the body and, and not sort of aware of time. And it was late and I think, you know, past my bedtime and didn’t matter. Yeah, that, that. I think you’ve just described hot sex.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:15:56]:
Exactly. Yeah.
Laurie Watson [00:15:57]:
Number one here.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:16:00]:
That sense of, you know, that sense of unity and merger. I mean, most people can think of something that puts them into a state of flow. You know, think of a surfer who’s at one with the wave. Or if you’re a snow skier, you’re a painter, musician, and those are things we do typically on our own. But we can also get into group FL. Flow. I mean, think of the time you went to a sold out concert and everyone is kind of moving in unison and harmony with the music. I mean, we can experience flow as an individual and as part of a group.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:16:32]:
And so this is about how to experience flow, you know, with your lover and to experience, you know, all of these qualities together. So it’s, it’s exciting stuff.
Laurie Watson [00:16:43]:
I always love that in football. Like when you get into the state, the ball was so big, it coming in slow. It was like the easiest thing in the world. Everything just slowed down.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:16:52]:
So there you go.
Laurie Watson [00:16:54]:
It wasn’t that way. But every once in a while you get into that, into that state.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:16:57]:
Yeah.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:16:57]:
And it’s that feeling like, like when everything just clicks, you know, and falls into place. And I love, you know, I’ll talk about some analogies with women. I, and I love the sports analogies with men because they get it, you know, it’s like, think of a team, you know, any sports, whatever your sport is, whether it’s football, soccer, even, you know, pair of tennis, doubles or something.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:17:17]:
Stick with, stick with football, but go ahead.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:17:20]:
Yeah, okay, we’ll stick with football. You know, they, they maybe talk through the plays ahead of time so that they prepare. And if we’re relaying that to sex, that’s talking through maybe your likes and dislikes, your preferences, that sort of thing. But when they’re on the field, they can’t stop and talk through every single move. Right, right. They fall into attunement with one another. They’re reading each other’s nonverbal cues. And you know, when one person steps in a certain direction, that’s signaling the rest of the players where to go.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:17:49]:
And that’s the feeling that I want people to have during sex. I think there’s kind of an Overemphasis on verbal communication for people who are working with people on how to have better sex. And of course that’s an important first step. But to take it a a step further, we’ve got to improve our non verbal communication skills. And, and men in particular, I think, have more work to do as it relates to this. You know, women, I think just because of differences around gender socialization, are kind of brought up to read the room and pay more attention to nonverbal cues. They tend to be a bit more in tune with their bodies just because of the cyclical nature of the female body. Men, not so much.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:18:35]:
And so when I’m working, you know, with heterosexual clients in particular, I work a lot with the men on paying attention to the more subtle shifts in their partner’s body so that they don’t have to talk, stop and talk through everything because that’ll interrupt the moment.
Laurie Watson [00:18:49]:
I mean, there are two directions we can go. Men could get better at that, expressing the nonverbal. Women just could get better at doing the mind reading that they’re supposed to do now.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:18:58]:
Right. If we only work on our mind. Yeah, I’m working on the nose spray patent and the mind reading patent.
Laurie Watson [00:19:04]:
All the shortcuts we get here. All right, let’s just take a quick break and come back and get to the other four.
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Dr. Emily Jamea [00:23:07]:
Yeah. So curiosity, sensuality is about getting into the body. Curiosity is about opening the mind.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:23:14]:
Yes.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:23:15]:
You know a lot. Yes. So you know, a lot of people don’t spend much time exploring or challenging whether the beliefs and values that they have internalized around sex and relationship norms really fit for who they are authentically as an individual. People in my research study had, you know, many of them had gone to therapy or read books or actively with their partner, kind of explored whether some of these norms really fit for them and. And began the process of shedding the ones that didn’t and rediscovering maybe qualities that did align more with the kind of lover that they wanted to be, even if those qualities weren’t as mainstream. Also, we know and Lori, this kind of speaks to the example you shared earlier with your husband. You know, couples who try new things have vastly improved sexual desire, relationship satisfaction, sexual satisfaction. There’s a whole body of research on this called self expansion.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:24:20]:
When we’re opening the mind and doing new things together, whether that’s as an individual or as a couple, that we bring in that sense of novelty to the bedroom. So it’s not always about trying something new in bed. It’s more about this, like, transfer of energy. But what I think is most exciting, and this comes directly from flow state science, is something called the challenge skills balance. So if you imagine an x, y axis, and on the Y axis you have how challenging something is, and on the X axis you have your skill set for whatever it is. There’s a difference when the challenge is just enough greater than your stick skill that you’ll get into a flow state. Okay. The difference only has to be.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:25:09]:
You want to take a guess?
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:25:12]:
No. Got no idea.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:25:15]:
4%. That’s it. Cool.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:25:17]:
Okay.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:25:18]:
Very, very little. So I think where people get hung up sexually is either the challenge of what they’re doing is too, too far below their skills and it’s gotten boring and monotonous because that’s what happens when it’s too far below or they try something new, but they dive into the deep end. And what happens when the challenge is too far above our skill set is we get anxious and scared and might shut, you know?
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:25:44]:
Sure.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:25:45]:
So couples need to have conversations about kind of what little baby steps they can take to add a bit of interest to something that maybe they already have a level of familiarity with, you.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:26:00]:
Know, so if you only do missionary, in bed, in your own bedroom, it’s probably not going to work for you to go do like sex out in the forest in the middle of the day or something. Right? That’s too far.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:26:15]:
Exactly. Exactly.
Laurie Watson [00:26:16]:
Maybe.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:26:17]:
What?
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:26:17]:
You know, maybe then you do sex from behind, or you might, you know, do sex on a chair or something. Just a Little different.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:26:25]:
There’s that. But, like, let’s stick with missionary, for example, because I had. I was talking about this with one of my clients, and I wish this had made it into the book because I loved what he said. But it was finished at that point. But anyway, he said, you know, typically when we do missionary, I’m kind of balance, you know, supporting myself on my forearms. I’m over my female partner. But what I did last time was I took one of my hands and I kind of cupped the back of her head, and I took my other hand and I reached down and held her hand with the other. And she told me later that, you know, that made her feel really safe and more connected than, you know, and loved than she had and the way I did missionary, typically.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:27:05]:
So sometimes it’s. It’s really about taking something, you know, and making it more emotionally or psychologically interesting. Right. That made her feel more loved. Or, you know, if he had taken her hands and pinned them over her head, like, that could have given her a sense of, you know, that he was dominant over her, which could have been really exciting. Or if he had said, look me in the eyes and don’t break eye contact, like, that could have added another interesting element. So there’s, like, a lot we can do, even with these stereotypically vanilla positions that can kind of open up a whole new. I’m trying to realm, I think, trying.
Laurie Watson [00:27:42]:
To find the balance of, you know, the first one where you’re saying, turn off your mind, and this one you’re saying, turn on your mind. I would imagine a lot of these conversations need to happen outside the. The bedroom, right. Where you’re developing kind of what could be different and not get too caught up in all this thinking inside the bedroom when you’re trying to apply that. Am I getting that right, or.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:28:02]:
Yes. And, you know, I tell people this is more of a menu than a road map. You know, there are going to be times when maybe life feels chaotic and you are living like two ships passing in the night. Well, then the sensuality chapter is probably for you. Or if things are just feeling kind of bored, boring, and monotonous, then maybe the curiosity chapter is for you. If there’s a big emotional disconnect, then the vulnerability chapter is for you. If you are struggling to move past, you know, a personal or relationship hurdle and you’re feeling kind of stuck, then the adaptability chapter is for you. So it kind of depends on what your relationship needs at any given point in time.
Laurie Watson [00:28:46]:
Let’s just move on to the adaptability, just so we cover them. All clear.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:28:50]:
Okay. Okay. So adaptability, you know, if curiosity is about opening the mind, I would say adaptability is really about having the courage to take the step. It’s sort of kind of one’s spirit, one’s willingness to take a step back and look at the bigger picture, to kind of assess what direction you may need to go given whatever challenge or hurdle is, is potentially blocking you, you know. So this is where I think, like, things like broadening your sexual script come into play. I love, I write about, like, Susan David’s work in this chapter on emotional agility. You know, sometimes we get so stuck in, like, what isn’t happening or maybe let’s just say, like the anxiety we’re feeling that we forget about all the things that are happening or all the other feelings that we may be having. And so it’s about doing that and learning to kind of tap into our strengths and use them to our advantage.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:29:50]:
You know, it’s this chapter, the adaptability one, that I think kind of teaches people how to maintain a strong sexual connection for the long haul. You know, because the idea is, as, you know, is, you know, the, the sex we have, our connection is going to evolve with time. And people who have a set it and forget it mentality and expect it to be like it was in the early days. And then when that doesn’t happen, don’t know what to do with themselves, are the ones that end up suffering the most versus people who are like, okay, like, how can we grow and evolve and change as a couple? And how do we need to edit or expand the way we have sex to navigate the differences?
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:30:32]:
What, what would we do to edit? I mean, could you give us a example of that or to expand our, our script?
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:30:41]:
So, like, let’s say, you know, for the first time a male partner, erections become less reliable. Right. Rather than stopping sex altogether, they will find new ways of being sexual that aren’t dependent on his erection. You know, so that’s just one little example. Or couples who have small kids at home kind of coming up with creative ways to kind of distract the kids so that they can find some time to connect. I’ve got a four and a six year old at home, and we will always have family rest time on Saturday. And, you know, they know not to come into our room during that time. And so it’s about kind of getting comfortable sometimes with the uncomfortable because you prioritize the sexual connection.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:31:29]:
Yeah, nice.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:31:30]:
Yeah.
Laurie Watson [00:31:32]:
Vulnerability.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:31:33]:
Vulnerability is all about. Here’s Our buzzword stuff. Yeah, exactly. You know, I think that in the beginning you’ve got this kind of automatic intensity with sex, right? The problem though, it’s like anyone with a beating heart can experience that because it’s so neurochemically driven. It’s when that intensity transitions to intimacy, see that a lot of people struggle or they think it’s no longer intense anymore. People who got into a flow state were able to cultivate intensity in and through intimacy. And this is where. So flow state.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:32:21]:
I talk about five secrets in the book, but flow state actually has eight components, okay? And it’s within this one that we find something called the Paradox of control. This episode is brought to you by Espolon. Tequila. Slow, sticky, snoozy. They call these the dog days of summer. But Espolon, they don’t do boring. Welcome to the mark days. Espolontequila 100% Blue Weber Agave Born to shake up your summer, just add lime.
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Dr. Emily Jamea [00:33:33]:
So I’m sure you have had clients complain about being unable to surrender to a sexual experience or their issues around control. And I think a lot of people think that control and surrender are mutually exclusive, but the fact is they’re very dependent on each other. So I usually. I use. Usually use a snow skiing analogy to explain this one. I like to ski, and I feel most confident on blues because I am in control enough that I can surrender to the mountain. And I lose myself in the moment. And all the flow elements are there.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:34:10]:
When I try to push myself onto a black, which I always try to do at least a couple times on a ski trip, I am so overly controlled that I cannot surrender. It’s like I’m too. I’m calculating the incline of my, you know, skis on the mountain and the balance of my weight and, you know, usually end up feeling so out of control. So it’s. It’s when I have that just right amount of control that I’m able to surrender. This is where, like, attachment stuff comes into play, right? So people who Have a very anxious attachment style, tend to kind of be hyper controlling in relationships because they think that in doing so they will feel safer and more connected with.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:34:56]:
That will secure love.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:34:58]:
Yeah, yeah. That kind of inhibits one’s ability to surrender. Right.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:35:04]:
For sure.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:35:05]:
And so it all kind of ties in. I think in, in this chapter we talk about control, we talk about attachment, you know, and Sue Johnson’s work on the different attachment styles as they relate to sex. You know, I write about in this chapter. And, and so I think it’s when people, yeah. Get really into that secure attachment style, when they feel safe or in control enough, when there’s a healthy balance of control in the relationship, that they’re then able to surrender to the sexual experience and lose themselves in it.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:35:41]:
Nice. Okay, last secret.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:35:44]:
So attunement, I would say, is kind of the gestalt. The other secrets, it’s like where everything comes together. The analogy I use here is like a pair of ballroom dancers who’ve been dancing together forever. And, you know, she knows what a flick of his wrist is signaling her body to do. Really attuned sex usually doesn’t come about until you have some experience under your belt. You know, to. To be really attuned with another partner, you’ve got to kind of practice consistently. And most of the other flow elements or secrets have to be there and come together.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:36:26]:
That, that gives sex, that. That feeling of effortlessness and ease that I think we all want to experience. So, you know, and. And it’s here that we get that kind of loss of space and time, that sense of effortlessness and ease that I just mentioned and some of the other flow elements. I’ll kind of show up. I think in attunement, you give it.
Laurie Watson [00:36:50]:
A shout out to long term lovers. You don’t have to have, you know, one night hookup sex to have great sex. Right. That’s this attunement piece. Beautiful.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:36:58]:
Totally total.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:36:59]:
Thank you. Thank you. Your five secrets, George. Will you read those off again to us?
Laurie Watson [00:37:06]:
You have sensuality, curiosity, adaptability, vulnerability and attunement.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:37:13]:
Right, that’s it. Yeah. Very nice.
Laurie Watson [00:37:15]:
Are you familiar with Peggy Kleinplatt’s work?
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:37:18]:
Yes.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:37:19]:
She is quoted in probably every chapter of the book more than once. Yeah. It was such a huge inspiration.
Laurie Watson [00:37:27]:
It’s beautiful to see the overlap. Right. I mean, when different voices are saying the same thing, you know, you’re closer to the truth.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:37:34]:
Exactly, exactly. I love her work. Yeah.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:37:37]:
And you can find all of this. Emily’s book is Anatomy of Five Secrets to Lasting Intimacy. She’s also got a podcast, I forgot to mention that. Love and Libido podcast. And that’s found everywhere. I imagine that podcasts are broadcast, correct?
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:37:53]:
Yep.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:37:54]:
So we just want to thank you for bringing your five secrets to us. This will help our listeners, and thank you so much for being with us.
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:38:02]:
The pleasure is all mine. Thank you so much for having me.
Laurie Watson [00:38:04]:
Thank you so much. And hopefully in the book, not only are they going to have the flow process described, but you could actually show them how to do it, right?
Dr. Emily Jamea [00:38:12]:
Oh, yeah. There’s tons of exercises in there for people. And actually, I’ll add real quickly. You know, I have this in an online workshop format as well, so people who buy the book can go to my website and get free access to the workshop just by putting in their proof of purchase. And in addition to the exercises that are in the book, I’ve got all the ones that didn’t make the cut, so there’s tons of stuff there.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:38:36]:
Nice. Okay. And that’s emilyjamia.com her book Anatomy of Desire, and her podcast, Love and Libido. Thank you, y’. All. Thanks for listening.
Laurie Watson [00:38:48]:
Keep it hot, y’. All.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:38:49]:
So some of you are interested in our work. We want to tell you where we.
Laurie Watson [00:38:53]:
Are, what we’re doing in January 23rd to 25th. We’re coming to Nashville in person to do three days of really kind of breaking down this process. And again, I think this should be mandatory for all therapists to just kind of have more confidence in knowing what to do and work with the sexual cycle.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:39:09]:
Yeah, we’ve already had lots of signups for that. By the way, George, people are also taking advantage of that early bird special. You know, we want supervisors to come. We’re giving half off to the supervisors. So please join us so that we can kind of get on the same page and understand and develop eft further. There’s going to be two days of lecture and exercises, and then a day maybe with a live and, you know, working on your tapes and your stuck places. And we’re going to go down to the Honky Tonk and have dinner together and have some fun.
Laurie Watson [00:39:44]:
Have some fun.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:39:44]:
Have some fun. Yeehaw.
Laurie Watson [00:39:46]:
Yeehaw. And for all you listeners, again, if you have a community and you want Laurie and I to come out and give a specialized training on sex. And again, I think this is so important for anybody seeing couples, then, you know, reach out to us and let’s continue to spread this message. Yeehaw. Call in your questions to the foreplay question. Voicemail dial 833-MY-4-PLAY. That’s 833-MY-THE- NUMBER 4-PLAY and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor.
Laurie Watson [00:40:24]:
This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.
Dr. Laurie Watson [00:40:26]:
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