Take our New Year’s Challenge! What is something you know that you do that hurts your relationship? Do you want to change this? We can so easily find what our partner does that hurts us, that justifies our own protective move of fight of flight. It can be difficult to want to change when it seems like our reactions make so much sense. But discovering what we do gives us the power to change the cycle.
And the good news is when we change our move and do something that might seem counterintuitive we often help ourselves as well. Then, we want you to make a concrete, doable resolution to change.
Listen to Laurie and George’s own personal commitments for New Years to be different in their own relationship. Are you with us?
Check out this episode’s sponsors (and help the pod!):
RocketMoney.com/foreplay — Get rid of those repeating subscriptions that you no longer want!
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Transcript
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Speaker B [00:00:52]:
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George Faller [00:01:29]:
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Laurie Watson [00:01:54]:
Georgia got bad news for the New Year’s?
George Faller [00:01:57]:
Uh oh. Supposed to be good news for the New Year’s. What are you doing, Lori?
Laurie Watson [00:02:01]:
We cannot change our marriages. That’s my takeaway. We cannot change our marriages. But I. I want to present a challenge to everybody.
George Faller [00:02:08]:
All right. I’m excited to hear this challenge.
Laurie Watson [00:02:12]:
Okay. Welcome to Foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Lori Watson, your sex therapist.
George Faller [00:02:19]:
And I’m George Fowler, your couples therapist.
Laurie Watson [00:02:22]:
We are here to talk about sex.
George Faller [00:02:24]:
Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind, and their hearts.
Laurie Watson [00:02:32]:
And we have a little bit of fun doing it, right, G, listen, and.
George Faller [00:02:35]:
Let’S change some relationships, all right, Lori, for you, start me off with a depression here. We can’t change our marriage. What are we doing wasting our time with this damn podcast?
Laurie Watson [00:02:44]:
I know, right? Right. No, we’re gonna. We’re gonna get to what I really wanna talk about today. But I first just wanna draw people’s attention to the fact that we’re going to be in Nashville on January 23rd through the 25th. Right. We’re doing a three day training there and the last day is going to be just kind of whatever the therapists are struggling with. So it should be a very exciting day. People can bring tapes and I’m busting.
George Faller [00:03:10]:
On my new cowboy boots, Laurie.
Laurie Watson [00:03:12]:
And you’re going to bring your new cowboy boots. Okay, everybody who wants to see Georgian cowboy boots, come on down. And we’re going to go out to dinner the last night, right? Honky tonk, maybe we’ll dance. It’ll be fun.
George Faller [00:03:24]:
Gonna be a great three days. And then. I know what, little bit afterwards. We’re doing something in Arkansas too, right?
Laurie Watson [00:03:29]:
That’s right. We’re in Arkansas right after that, the end of February. So depending on what part of the country you’re in, see us there. And you can go to Arkansas eft.com and that’s going to be February 27th and 28th. We’re gonna do Unleash the Power of Sex in EFT with Mr. George Fowler and Lori Watson.
George Faller [00:03:50]:
Dr. Lori Watson, again, this is such exciting times, I think for E. You know, we’ve contributed so much around the emotional attachment and vulnerability and how do you repair, but haven’t been as focused in what happens sexually in a bedroom. So you know where I think. And I really move the field, Laurie, through these conversations, through people’s expertise, you know, through talking about something that most of us grew up not talking about. And I think it’s just exciting times for EFT and just all of us in general.
Laurie Watson [00:04:22]:
Yes, yes. Very excited to be in both places. We get to be with our buddies, Ryan Raina and Dr. James Hawkins. Dr. Ryan Raina. And they do a really cool podcast too, for EFT therapists. Right?
George Faller [00:04:37]:
The Leading Edge.
Laurie Watson [00:04:38]:
The Leading Edge. And I listen to it. I learn a lot. Please listen up. It’s on podcasts wherever you find them, wherever you listen to them. Really great stuff. They’re funny, fun to listen to, and a lot of good information there too. Okay, back to why we can’t change our marriages, you know, I think so many people come in to see us, right, in clinic and in our clinical work, and they’re like, okay, you know, we’ve got poor communication or, you know, we’re not making it in the bedroom or.
Laurie Watson [00:05:14]:
And basically they want their marriage to be fixed. What is missing, George, is their own sense of what’s hurting them on the inside and what they want to change. And that’s what I want our focus for the New year to be is something inside of us that we know is not working for us and that contributes to the negative cycle and. And that we are committed to change about us. Right. Because we really can’t change a whole dynamic. We can only change our side of the dynamic.
George Faller [00:05:49]:
Right. I like. And both scenarios, right? I mean, you gotta work together. A lot of emphasis is cycles and trying to unite together. But yes, Lori’s 100% right. So often, especially in defensiveness, we want to focus on what our partner could do differently. And we’re hoping our partner is going to change. And meanwhile, the one thing we can control ourselves, we don’t kind of take that sense of agency to focus on what we can control.
George Faller [00:06:15]:
So I like this New Year’s resolution. Like, what can every one of us can change something that we do with ourselves. So that’s definitely something we can do.
Laurie Watson [00:06:23]:
I think one of the most common blocks I hear in people who probably know they need to change is, I’ll change if you change. You know, if my partner will do their part, their 50%, I’ll do my 50%. And they both are at a standstill this. They’re stalled because they’re waiting on their partner to change.
George Faller [00:06:44]:
But even that, it’s what I will do differently for you. I’m going to change. You want me to engage more, I’ll do that for you. If you’re less critical or, you know, you want me to be less critical, I’ll do that if you engage more. Right.
Laurie Watson [00:06:56]:
Yeah.
George Faller [00:06:56]:
It’s still focusing on what you’re going to do for the other. And what, Laurie, you’re talking about, Right. Unless I’m getting it wrong, is what can you do differently for you, regardless of what your partner does or doesn’t.
Laurie Watson [00:07:07]:
Do and do you see what you’re doing that contributes to the cycles rather than, yeah, I’d feel free to talk to you or spend time with you if you would have sex with me or, yeah, I’d have sex with you if you would, like, give me the time of day. It’s like if, you know your partner’s Need. You can actually do that. And people say, well, how long. How long do I have to keep doing the thing that my partner needs before I can expect to see some change? I mean, many times I think men say, hey, look it, I did do all the things you suggested. I asked her dinner. I did the dishes from lunch. You know, I made a reservation.
Laurie Watson [00:07:52]:
I brought her flowers. Was there sex that night? No. It’s like there’s an expectation, right? If I do it once, then I should expect immediate change. And really, what we want to do is create a culture of change, a culture that makes it easy for our partner to change, and that takes time, especially when the negative cycle has eroded our good faith, our goodwill in each other.
George Faller [00:08:20]:
It’s always nice seeing a couple with secure attachment where they have that resiliency, like these annoying things that you can just bounce off because they have to trust they have a lot of. A lot of goodwill in the. In the bank. But when you don’t have that, these little things really hit the resentment and mistrust, and, you know, off to the negative cycle we go. But, yeah, well, I. Let’s get specific. So, okay, what are you thinking, Laurie? What is something you can do or something?
Laurie Watson [00:08:46]:
So first thing I want to do is examine kind of what my natural defensive structure is, right? I’m a pursuer. I’m a pursuer emotionally and sexually. And that doesn’t mean I like sex and I like emotions. That means that pursue, withdraw is actually a pattern that breaks people apart, that separates people. Pushing doesn’t work ever. Neither does withdrawing, but. So I want to try to think about maybe how I can come closer to a more secure pattern. So it doesn’t.
Laurie Watson [00:09:27]:
Pushing doesn’t mean to not be a pursuer. Doesn’t mean I can never get my needs met or ask for my needs to be met. But I also have to be able to accept my partner saying, no, you know, not the right time. Don’t ever want to do that. You know, whatever. So if I have a pursuing part, which means for me, and this is personal, that inside, like, you know, I can get tangled up in my brain. George, you say this all the time, like, oh, that’s. That’s your brain going.
Laurie Watson [00:09:57]:
You know, it’s like, you know, I can get worried. I can get, like, crazy about things when I. When things are not going smoothly. So I think for me, honestly, tamping that part down in my heart, my soul, in my body, is my goal for the new year. And you know what I’m going to do to do that is, I’m going to meditate. I’m going to meditate 10 minutes a day. And why do I do that? What does that have to do with my marriage? What does that have to do with anything? Is I need to be able to have my body come back into regulation faster. Because once I start thinking a worrisome thought about a relationship, my body goes on high alert and then I’m driven to want to, you know, like push through regardless of what the other person may be feeling.
Laurie Watson [00:10:50]:
It’s like I can’t generate alternatives. Well, this is maybe why, you know, they said that. Or maybe this is why they didn’t get back to me. Or, you know, I can’t generate good alternatives that are benign about the relationship. When my body starts to feel nervous and anxious, my heart’s racing, whatever. And you know, little things can set that off. So I need to learn a way as a pursuer to have a way inside that my body can calm down faster. And I know like there’s personal benefits, right.
Laurie Watson [00:11:24]:
I’ll feel less stress. There’s all sorts of good things for me in this. But you know, for my partners as well. Wait, not my partners. For my partner and for, you know, my friends and my people I’m in relationship with.
George Faller [00:11:38]:
Right. This is tangible. So what I mean by that is pursuers, especially when they get anxious, they want to focus on reducing that anxiety. So they focus externally on changing their, the external factors, their partner’s moves, and they leave themselves. So what you’re saying is so important. It’s like I can’t really control my partner if my father’s going to initiate sex or not. But what I can control is how I position myself to my own anxiety. And I think that’s a really powerful move to be able to say, hey, wait a second, instead of abandoning myself to try to get somebody else to respond, I could try to do something with my own anxiety and I can stay present for myself instead of leaving myself.
George Faller [00:12:19]:
Right, but that is the power of self regulation. What they’re looking for is co regulation with their partner, which is awesome stuff too, but it doesn’t have to be either or. They’re both good. So what you’re saying is I want to get better this year and at self regulation, at kind of how I position myself with my own anxiety.
Laurie Watson [00:12:37]:
Right, exactly. And I mean in eft, we’re working with a couple, we want the two of you to co regulate. We know co regulation works. It’s actually faster than self regulation. But you know, for me, my Focus. What hurts me, what I think hurts my relationship, is that sort of anxious part that can’t rest.
George Faller [00:13:07]:
Yeah. No, I appreciate your courage to want to respond better to yourself. I mean, I think that’s the thing with anxiety. And I’ll talk about withdrawing after the break, but that idea of I’m going to help myself by changing my partner, we have good reasons why we do that. We’re not saying you’re wrong for doing that. That’s important stuff too. But there’s always an impact, right. There’s an impact to the partner of what pushing does.
George Faller [00:13:36]:
But what I loved, what Lori’s doing, having the courage to say, is I want to look at the impact of myself, that how I deal with my own anxiety is to leave myself all the time. I want to get better and more disciplined and committed towards responding to myself, to tell myself when I’m anxious, that, you know, maybe you have good reasons for it, but you’re still, you know, a great person. And like, it’s that ability to stay with yourself that’s going to really be a discharge for some of that anxiety. And I think it’s important for a lot of listeners to kind of hear that.
Laurie Watson [00:14:05]:
Yeah. And I think you’re, you know, you’re talking about another technique. Right. Self compassion. So let’s come back after the break and see what, what you might want to change. Gift. When it comes to holiday gifting, I want to give things that people really love. Beautiful, timeless pieces that they’ll wear for years.
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Speaker A [00:15:34]:
All.
Laurie Watson [00:15:34]:
Foreplay.
Laurie Watson [00:15:36]:
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George Faller [00:16:28]:
Well, since I’m a withdrawer, I don’t want to change anything, Lori.
Laurie Watson [00:16:31]:
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Withdrawers are very content off, you know and I think honestly I was talking to another pursuer recently. She had had just an incident, a very, very small incident with a neighbor. And she had sent the neighbor a note and the neighbor had not responded. And she said, you know, I’m wondering is she mad at me? All this? And I said, and we were laughing together about it and I said, you know, our husbands would probably A have never sent the note and B, they wouldn’t have even noticed that a note didn’t come back. Like there is something nice about the withdrawing position, right. That you know, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Like they just, you know, they just kind of go along and they don’t think about these problems so much.
Laurie Watson [00:17:22]:
Yeah, yeah.
George Faller [00:17:24]:
Well, I’m going to withdraw for a second.
Laurie Watson [00:17:26]:
Okay.
George Faller [00:17:26]:
Because I do want to add one thing that so important about what you were saying. Because when pursuers are critical and push their partner and their partner disengages, usually they come back in a critical way to themselves. Like I deserve it. Here I go again. Like so that self compassion is critical towards having success coming back to yourself. So I love your, your New Year’s resolution and I’m going to focus on what I can control my own relationship to my own anxiety. One, I’m going to try to not leave myself so much in it and two, I’m going to try to be more self compassionate with myself when I am in that place. And we guarantee you, if you have some success with those two moves, you will have a better 2025.
Laurie Watson [00:18:10]:
Absolutely. So, so give me an example of what that would look like.
George Faller [00:18:17]:
Well, as you were saying, I, I’m, I notice My anxiety and my default move would want to be like, push that neighbor. Like, why didn’t you, like, respond back? Like, it wants to focus on your neighbor and what your neighbors do it. Instead of staying in that place that says, huh, if I focus on my neighbor, I’m going to leave myself. And, you know, what is it about not getting responded to? Oh, it’s that similar raw spot, right? This place that, like, I’m being rejected, I’m not important like this. I know this place in myself. Instead of leaving it, it’s like, hey, I did the best I can. I can’t control my neighbor, but I did beautiful. I tried to connect during the holidays.
George Faller [00:18:55]:
Like, that’s something I feel good about myself. And maybe my neighbor’s going through something. Maybe they missed it. I don’t know what’s going on my neighbor, but I can be happy with myself. I don’t deserve to feel bad about myself because I did something nice, right? So again, it’s just trying to stay with you in that kind of more generous place and you would.
Laurie Watson [00:19:13]:
You would be aware of the neighbor not responding, even as a withdrawer, Is that what you’re saying?
George Faller [00:19:19]:
No, I was being a pursuer.
Laurie Watson [00:19:22]:
Okay.
George Faller [00:19:23]:
Me being a woman. You were trying to help focus on someone else instead of myself fixing others.
Laurie Watson [00:19:31]:
I was like, wait, I’m so confused. I did not think of you as a person who would care about the neighbor sending you a card.
George Faller [00:19:37]:
No, I think if we’re going to take what. What I would have to, what I’m going to work on. And we just started talking about this. So it’s a new New Year’s resolution for me. I had a different resolution. So there’s no sense not adding more of them. But I think what I tend to do, you know, when I get a message that I don’t like, is to just shrug it off, to just say, hey, listen, whatever, you know, I got a million other things and I’m not going to give it a lot of lot of space. But what that does is it causes me to leave myself.
George Faller [00:20:09]:
It causes me not to see, you know, the ouch that happens right before I shrug it off. And seeing the value and kind of responding to that place and giving it a little bit more space like that I can control, you know, so in this situation, if the neighbor doesn’t respond and I think all withdrawals before they shrug it off, there’s a little ouch. There’s a little like, you know, I wonder what they’re doing, or maybe they’re with Someone else. Like, it’d be easy to give that space too much space, and then anxiety would come. That’s why withdrawals just shrug it off. But, you know, really noticing something similar. The same two moves that we were talking about with you, like, I got to recognize what I can control is not to leave myself, not to always go focus on something else. That there’s.
George Faller [00:20:58]:
There’s a. There’s a vulnerable part of me that deserves responding to. If somebody I loved felt that I would want to help them with it, why do I just never deserve help in that place? You know, and if I never get help in those places, my only move is to keep avoiding them. And before. Before you know it, I try and avoid half my life with these triggers. So kind of seeing the value to just pause a moment and say, right, what can I name that ouch? Can I name that vulnerable kind of insecurity or whatever comes up? And then part two is, can I respond to it? You know, can I. Can I validate that and just say, listen, you know, I tried to do something nice. I know we’re here to connect.
George Faller [00:21:35]:
It’s a good thing. Especially as a withdrawal, when I initiate connection, right? So if I initiate it and get rejected, it usually can hurt a little bit more than even if you don’t initiate at all. So just making space for that and telling myself, you know, you took a risk, you’re trying to engage. These are the things that I want to be doing more of. Those are the things I control. I can’t control what people do with it, but I can control, you know, my ability to take that risk.
Laurie Watson [00:22:02]:
And, you know, as I listen to you, we’re not that far away from each other that. I think what you’re saying is most typically, you just let the ouch ride. You don’t pay any attention, and you go forward and you focus, refocus on something else that you can be successful at. But you’re saying you want to kind of notice that tiny little ouch first, because it deserves to be attended to. It deserves care. It deserves some sort of compassion. Like, okay, you know, maybe I heard a message, right, from my partner. They’re unhappy with something.
Laurie Watson [00:22:37]:
And. And before I just say, whatever, there’s this tiny little, you know, thorn, and you. You want to actually start to notice it because those little thorns over time, right, Create a sense of, you know, I. I can’t trust this relationship. I can’t be connected to this person. I’m hurting on the inside, and I just. I leave that hurt unattended.
George Faller [00:23:07]:
Exactly.
Laurie Watson [00:23:07]:
There’s consequences to that. Just turning away and refocusing somewhere else. That over time, I mean, in one little thing, maybe it’s smart, you know, sometimes to refocus on something, but over time, that probably leaves you without sort of the sense of emotional comfort that you might want.
George Faller [00:23:27]:
Exactly. That’s the. We spend a lot of time emphasizing the impact of your defensive move to your partner. This is really stretching to say. Right. Can you take ownership for the impact to yourself? For me, it does provide immediate protection by not feeling that ouch. But what I don’t see over time is it’s killing my capacity to want to engage emotionally. Right.
George Faller [00:23:51]:
I start avoiding those places in myself. And to be empathetic, we have to be able to touch those places. So not only does it hurt me to not know myself, it’s going to hurt me to try to connect with the people I love in my life because, you know, they’re struggling in their ouches and they want to share that and talk about that. And my body’s going to want to shrug that off too, because that’s just the way I’ve learned to regulate emotions. So this is a beautiful fight for myself that will also have the added benefit of stretching my capacity to be able to do that with the people I love.
Laurie Watson [00:24:23]:
Yeah.
Laurie Watson [00:24:25]:
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Laurie Watson [00:24:54]:
Yeah. There’s a benefit for me and there’s certainly a benefit in the relationship. If I want to change my relationships, I got to look inside. What. What in me do I already know is problematic? And how can I focus on that problem place to change that first, you know?
George Faller [00:25:19]:
Yeah. Both. Both pursuers and withdrawals. So that means all of us, all of us in a fight or flight, yellow brain kind of spot actually goes away from the vulnerability.
Laurie Watson [00:25:33]:
Right.
George Faller [00:25:34]:
Right. So I might focus as pushing my partner to change or I might get away from my own ouch. But both of them leave that place alone.
Laurie Watson [00:25:42]:
Yeah.
George Faller [00:25:43]:
And if we can just take ownership for that and get a little bit better for staying with ourselves in a compassionate way. That’s a. Goes a big way towards discharge and, like, the stress of these moments.
Laurie Watson [00:25:57]:
Exactly. Exactly. Okay, I know, I know. We all want better relationships in the new year. You know, we. We want more sex. Let’s think about the place inside. You know, also, just quick, you know, quick review.
Laurie Watson [00:26:14]:
Like, if you’re a sexual withdrawer, what might you do? Like, maybe learn your body a little bit better. You know, learn what you like. If you’re a sexual pursuer, you know, maybe learn to be direct instead of hinting or being vigilant. Just ask, you know, hey, you know, do you want to have sex tonight? And if, you know, you have to, unfortunately accept. I’m not in the mood.
George Faller [00:26:39]:
Yeah. Both partners have to make room for those vulnerable parts of themselves and to listen to them because they’re wise and they kind of tell us the problem, but they also tell us what we need, and they tell us the solution. So really being intentional to take ownership that I can control this regardless of what my partner does, I can control listening to what’s at the heart of this issue for me.
Laurie Watson [00:27:02]:
Exactly. Well, Happy New Year. We are thankful for your listening. Thank you for your support on Patreon. We just appreciate those of you who are on mission with us and look inside.
George Faller [00:27:20]:
Yeah. 2025 is going to be our year. Books coming out. We’re getting excited. The podcast is growing. You know, we think this world desperately needs better messages of love and repair and how to communicate that. And we are so, so blessed to be partnered with you all and to. To know that this is.
George Faller [00:27:41]:
This is a mission. This is a movement. Right. We’re all becoming part of something bigger than ourselves, you know, then that’s what love is. Love grows. That’s why. I mean, it could be corny or cliche, but, you know, we’re. That’s.
George Faller [00:27:53]:
That’s what our mission is about. So we couldn’t do it all without you all, and we really look forward to some exciting things that happen in 2025.
Laurie Watson [00:28:02]:
Thanks for listening.
George Faller [00:28:03]:
Keep it hot, y’.
Laurie Watson [00:28:04]:
All. So some of you are interested in our work. We want to tell you where we are, what we’re doing.
George Faller [00:28:09]:
In January 23rd to 25th, we’re coming to Nashville in person to do three days of really kind of breaking down this process. And again, I think this should be mandatory for all therapists to just kind of have more confidence in knowing what to do and work with the sexual cycle.
Laurie Watson [00:28:25]:
Yeah. We’ve already had lots of signups for that. By the way, George, people are also taking advantage of that early bird special. You know, we want supervisors to come. We’re giving half off to the supervisors. So please join us so that we can kind of get on the same page and understand and develop eft further. There’s going to be two days of lecture and exercises and then a day maybe with a live and, you know, working on your tapes and your stuck places and we’re going to go down to the Honky Tonk and have dinner together and have some fun.
George Faller [00:28:59]:
Have some fun.
Laurie Watson [00:29:00]:
Have some fun. Yeehaw.
George Faller [00:29:02]:
Yeehaw. And for all you listeners, again, if, if you have a community and you want Laurie and I to come out and give a specialized training on sex and again, I think this is so important for anybody seeing couples, then, you know, reach out to us and let’s continue to spread this message. Yeehaw.
Speaker B [00:29:20]:
Call in your questions to the four play question voicemail. Dial 833-MY-44-PLAY. That’s 833-MY-THE- NUMBER-OUR PLAY. And we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes. All content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.
Laurie Watson [00:29:42]:
When it comes to holiday gifting, I want to give things that people really love. Beautiful, timeless pieces that they’ll wear for years. That’s why I’m going to Quince. From their Mongolian cashmere sweaters, which you know I love, to the Italian wool coats and everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense. I am giving every son of mine one of their cashmere scarves and I’m giving my daughter in laws the cashmere sweaters, different varieties. But I’m so excited and I am of course wearing cashmere sweaters for the holidays because I’m going to where it’s cold and I cannot wait. Quince has something for everyone. Every piece is made with premium materials, with ethical trusted factories and price far below what other luxury brands charge.
Laurie Watson [00:30:27]:
And their craftsmanship really shows in every detail. The stitching, the fit, the drape. It’s elevated, timeless and made to wear on repeat. Find gifts so good that you want to keep them with Quince. Go to quince.comforeplay for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. And that’s Q-U-I-N-C-E.com foreplay to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/foreplay Remember our code
Laurie Watson [00:30:57]:
Foreplay.
Speaker B [00:30:58]:
Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know, one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north. And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile’s unlimited wireless for $15 a month. Now you don’t even need to wrap it. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment.
Laurie Watson [00:31:19]:
Of $45 for three month plan, equivalent to $15 per month. Required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes if network’s busy, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com.
