In this episode, we sit down with Colette Fehr, a relationship expert, to dive deep into all things menopause and sex! Colette is a certified EFT therapist, and co-host of the podcast ‘Insights from the Couch-Mental Health at Midlife.’

Colette shares her extensive knowledge on the biological, emotional and physical effects of menopause and how couples can navigate challenges together. She debunks menopause myths and ways partners can support one another during this phase. Colette shares that not only can couples in this stage make it through but can have the BEST sex of their lives! Make sure you download this episode and share it with your partner. You’ll take away knowledge and actionable tips to improve your sex life in midlife.

To learn more about Colette head to  https://www.colettejanefehr.com  and listen to your podcast insightsfromthecouch.org anywhere you stream. Colette’s perspective is one you won’t want to miss! Tune in for a conversation full of wisdom, real-life experiences, and thought-provoking ideas. Keep it hot y’all!

Transcript

George Faller [00:00:00]:
Do you ever wish you could show your dog just how obsessed you are with them? You actually can by giving them something to obsess over their food. Ollie makes fresh human grade meals tailored to your pup’s unique needs and their recipes are made with real meat, fruits and veggies. No fillers, no weird stuff, just the good things your dog deserves. And when your pup eats better, they feel better so they’ll have the energy to live their best life right alongside you. Ollie also offers On Demand health so you can easily check in with the Ollie Health team and get peace of mind on your dog’s well being. Go to ollie.com BFF and use code BFF to get 60% off your first box. That’s o l l I-e.com BFF the best food for your best friend when.

George Faller [00:00:52]:
It comes to gifting, everyone on your list deserves something special. Luckily, Marshall’s buyers travel far and wide, hustling for great deals and amazing gifts.

Laurie Watson [00:01:01]:
So you don’t have to.

George Faller [00:01:02]:
That means your mom cashmere sweater, your best friend, that Italian leather bag, your co workers unwrap their favorite beauty brands, and your nephews the coolest new toys.

George Faller [00:01:12]:
Go ahead.

George Faller [00:01:13]:
At prices this good, you can grab something for yourself too. Marshalls we get the deals you gift the good stuff. Shop now@marshalls.com or find a store near you. This episode is brought to you by Espolontequila. Slow, Sticky, Snoozy. They call these the dog days of summer. But espolon they don’t do boring. Welcome to the mark days.

George Faller [00:01:35]:
Esplon Tequila 100 Blue Weber Agave born to shake up your summer. Just add lime agave and a little attitude. Visit espolontecila.com espolontequila 40 alcohol, volume 80 proof Copyright 2025 Campari America New York, NY Drink responsibly.

George Faller [00:01:52]:
The following content is not suitable for children.

Laurie Watson [00:01:54]:
We are so excited. Today we have Colette Fair, who’s an EFT certified therapist and she’s a podcaster from Insights from the Couch, Mental Health and at Midlife. And we are going to talk about menopause and she’s so excited because she’s just come from a conference. Welcome Colette.

Colette Fehr [00:02:12]:
Thank you. Hi Lori and George. It’s so great to see you both again.

George Faller [00:02:16]:
Hey, thanks for being here. Menopause. Here we go.

Laurie Watson [00:02:24]:
Welcome to Foreplay sex therapy. I’m Dr. Lori Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller [00:02:28]:
And I’m George Fowler, your couples therapist.

Laurie Watson [00:02:31]:
We are here to talk about sex.

George Faller [00:02:33]:
Our mission is to help couples talk about sex. In ways that incorporate their body, their mind, and their hearts.

Laurie Watson [00:02:41]:
And we have a little bit of fun doing it.

George Faller [00:02:43]:
Right, G, listen, and let’s change some relationships.

Laurie Watson [00:02:46]:
We’ve all just been in Las Vegas together at a conference there. That was the last time we saw each other, which was so much fun. And Colette, you did such a great job for us on our role play. That was a bunch of fun.

Colette Fehr [00:02:58]:
I loved it. It was great.

Laurie Watson [00:03:00]:
And I have been on your podcast, Insights from the Couch. So we want you all to go over there and listen. They do even more on sexuality and things that are happening in midlife, but, you know, more than just menopause. But today, we are really grateful because we’ve been wanting to do an episode on menopause for a while. And you bring such good energy to everything you do. We’re really happy to have you with us.

Colette Fehr [00:03:25]:
Thank you so much.

George Faller [00:03:25]:
And I’m hoping to learn some personal stuff. I have a phase of life where everyone around me seems to be going through menopause, so I think I should learn. So all us male listeners, like, I think we, we, we got some. Take our notepads out and here we go.

Laurie Watson [00:03:40]:
Yes, exactly.

Colette Fehr [00:03:42]:
I think that’s really important. There’s. It’s just been a black hole about what men and women know about menopause. And as women spend 40% of our lives in this phase. Right. What I learned is menopause is one day. Actually, it’s the right. Technically, it’s one day.

Colette Fehr [00:04:02]:
It’s the day a year after your last period, if you’re after 45. But everything after that is the phase of life that we spend the most time in. So we really need to understand it and redefine what that stage of life means.

Laurie Watson [00:04:17]:
Right, exactly. And there’s kind of a stage that leads up to menopause, which is called perimenopause, and that usually starts around 47. Maybe you have irregular periods or something like that.

Colette Fehr [00:04:30]:
Well, you.

Laurie Watson [00:04:32]:
Oh, tell me correct, please.

Colette Fehr [00:04:35]:
So, and let me just say I am getting the information that I’m sharing today and I took lots of notes I’m getting from a panel of world renowned doctors because I am not, you know, a medical doctor. I just learned a lot of this myself through having the podcast. But what I learned is that perimenopause actually can start as early as 37 years old and often has or is already well underway by the time women turn 40. And that’s when there can be a change and reduction in hormones for some people, like estrogen, testosterone, I mean, those are two of the big ones. And progesterone. And that both men and women have all of these hormones in our body.

Laurie Watson [00:05:20]:
That’s right.

Colette Fehr [00:05:20]:
And they’re responsible for so much of our health. So as we get into menopause, I mean, perimenopause, there’s this mitochondrial dysfunction that can start to happen. Right.

Laurie Watson [00:05:33]:
Such a sexy thing, mitochondrial dysfunction.

Colette Fehr [00:05:36]:
Doesn’t that sound awful at a cellular level? And I’m not going to be this boring forever, but just to set the stage, have you guys heard of the term called senescence?

Laurie Watson [00:05:47]:
Yes.

Colette Fehr [00:05:48]:
Okay. It’s like cell death. And so this is all the like gory sounding stuff, but then there’s lots of positivity. So basically, I promise, we need, we.

Laurie Watson [00:05:59]:
Need some good news too, eventually.

Colette Fehr [00:06:01]:
Yes, there’s lots of good news.

Laurie Watson [00:06:03]:
You’re right. It is, I would say, for most of us, a difficult stage of life. So. Yes.

Colette Fehr [00:06:09]:
Yeah. And what I learned is that it’s really a biopsychosocial transition. So there’s all this medical jargon I’m throwing out now about what starts to happen in the cells, particularly without enough estrogen, which is why women. And we can talk about this too, but why women need to make informed decisions about hormone replacement therapy.

Laurie Watson [00:06:31]:
Yes.

Colette Fehr [00:06:32]:
And then there’s. Yeah, and then there’s also, you know, physical changes, social changes, relationship changes. But I think all of this is in service of changing the narrative around perimenopause, menopause and post menopause and seeing it as an opportunity rather than this doom and gloom. Now you’re an old woman. Go in the corner and die. Which is what society used to say to us.

Laurie Watson [00:07:00]:
Wait, wait, you said you were gonna give us good news, not the old news.

Colette Fehr [00:07:05]:
That’s the old narrative.

Laurie Watson [00:07:07]:
Yeah, yeah, I think you’re right. I think that.

George Faller [00:07:09]:
Give you that like quilt thing when you go in the corner and you’re just supposed to play with that for like a couple years. Yeah, yeah, Right, right.

Colette Fehr [00:07:17]:
That was the old patriarchal message in society was that once women are no longer reproductive, that we’re sort of invisible. And as a result, and this is true, it’s now starting to change. But almost no studies have been done on what goes on for women. No funding has been put into medication for women, but there’s tons of money in pills for erectile dysfunction. Right. And research if men have a problem with their penis. People care, but typically until recently, people haven’t cared as much about what happens with women.

Laurie Watson [00:07:59]:
And I would say I do care about men’s penises. Just for the record.

Colette Fehr [00:08:02]:
Me too. Me too.

Laurie Watson [00:08:05]:
But let’s. We want more funding. We want more funding about women’s sexuality. Right?

Colette Fehr [00:08:10]:
Right. We want to care about both their.

Laurie Watson [00:08:13]:
Physiological issues and changes. And this one, you’re right. It’s been underfunded. Although when it comes to holiday gifting, I want to give things that people really love. Beautiful, timeless pieces that they’ll wear for years. That’s why I’m going to Quince. From their Mongolian cashmere sweaters, which you know, I love, to the Italian wool coats and everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense. I am giving every son of mine one of their cashmere scarves and I’m giving my daughter in laws the cashmere sweaters, different varieties.

Laurie Watson [00:08:45]:
But I’m so excited. And I am of course wearing cashmere sweaters for the holidays because I’m going to wear. It’s cold and I cannot wait. Quince has something for everyone. Every piece is made with premium materials, without ethical, trusted factories and price far below what other luxury brands charge. And their craftsmanship really shows in every detail. The stitching, the fit, the drape. It’s elevated, timeless, and made to wear on repeat.

Laurie Watson [00:09:11]:
Find gifts so good that you want to keep them with Quince. Go to quince.comforeplay for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. And that’s Q U-I-N-C-E.com foreplay to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com foreplay Remember our code, Y’.

Colette Fehr [00:09:34]:
All.

Laurie Watson [00:09:34]:
Foreplay.

George Faller [00:09:35]:
There are many memorable moments during the holidays. And those memorable moments are even better when they’re centered around a honey baked ham. Whether that looks like sneaking a slice of our signature bone in half ham with that irresistible sweet, crunchy glaze before you serve it to guests. Hosting family and friends for the first time and wowing them with our new tender and juicy prime rib or having a solo midnight snack of double cheddar Mac and cheese, cheese and green bean casserole. There’s no wrong way to holiday with the people you love most because every bite is a celebration with the Honey Baked Ham company.

Laurie Watson [00:10:05]:
Get us to the good news.

Colette Fehr [00:10:07]:
Yes. Okay, so the good news is, and I don’t even see all of this as bad news, just something that’s needed to change and that we need to understand. When we understand what’s happening in our bodies, then there’s so many things that we can do to address it. And Lori, I will Never forget what you said on our podcast about how your sex life is the best it’s ever been post menopause.

Laurie Watson [00:10:31]:
That is true. That is true.

Colette Fehr [00:10:33]:
Yeah. And as a 51 year old woman, I’m not in menopause yet, but all the stuff’s happening and it’s knocking at the door. I feel the best I’ve ever felt in my life. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. I think this is an opportunity for women to develop ourselves and lead probably the most fulfilling life that we’ve led so far. At this stage, it’s just a matter of being informed and making decisions that support our health.

Laurie Watson [00:11:02]:
That’s awesome. What do you think for you? Colette is happier now at this stage of life. Like, why do you think you’ve been able to, even with menopause knocking at the door like that? You have gotten happier. And I know things about you too in your sex life, so.

Colette Fehr [00:11:20]:
Girl, yes, you do. You know it all.

Laurie Watson [00:11:23]:
We can.

George Faller [00:11:23]:
I don’t know any of this, so I’d like to hear some of what’s going on.

Colette Fehr [00:11:27]:
We got a loop. Georgian. And I am, as you guys know, very open book, so you can ask me anything. I think that I’m. First of all, my kids are gone. That sounds terrible. I don’t mean it like that, but lots of stress. Yeah, they’re both driving.

Colette Fehr [00:11:43]:
Exactly. And I’m in a blended family, so my husband has. We’re a second marriage. He has two adult daughters, and now my daughters are in their 20s, so all of our little chickies have flown the coop and they’re doing well, so we can focus on ourselves. And then also, I think with more time, I’ve been able to focus on my career and developing my career in new directions. Getting back to hobbies.

Laurie Watson [00:12:09]:
Podcasting as one of your directions. Yep. Getting back to hobbies.

Colette Fehr [00:12:15]:
Yeah. So things that are fulfilling.

George Faller [00:12:18]:
We. We skipped the sex question, though. What. What was this?

Colette Fehr [00:12:22]:
This.

George Faller [00:12:22]:
I know these sexual things that are happening. What’s.

Laurie Watson [00:12:25]:
You. You gotta listen to my podcast on my episode on hers just to. To hear all my sexual secrets. Right.

Colette Fehr [00:12:32]:
Well, can I speak to that a little bit?

Laurie Watson [00:12:35]:
Yes, sure.

Colette Fehr [00:12:36]:
Yeah. So I think that when we’re younger women and Lori, we talked about this a lot. We are in. I don’t want to speak for everyone. Let me speak for myself. I used to be. I used to think about sex as the success of sex was getting my partner off, being sexy, being tantalizing, being performative, and that my worth was somehow Tied to that. I didn’t think this so consciously, of course, but that’s more of how it was.

Colette Fehr [00:13:07]:
And what I wanted or how satisfied I was was sort of secondary. And I do think there are other women who will relate to what I’m saying.

Laurie Watson [00:13:16]:
And as we get. Absolutely, yeah.

Colette Fehr [00:13:18]:
So as we get older, I feel more comfortable in my own skin. I’m not as worried if, you know, a fat roll is showing or, like, cellulite or whatever. I mean, I’m not going to pretend I love it, but it’s not. You know, when I was young, it was like, oh, no. Is this angle flattering? I feel more free to be in the moment, to ask for what I want and not to pretend I’m ecstatic in pleasure if I’m not and actually confront it and discuss it with my partner.

Laurie Watson [00:13:50]:
And, I mean, it sounds like you and your partner, too. There’s enough safety and security between the two that you can tell him about these things and get reassurance about how attractive he finds you, which I gotta say, you are very attractive girl. Oh, thank you. Beautiful woman. And I think both George and I appreciate your energy. Right.

George Faller [00:14:12]:
Well, that’s. George is very quiet. It’s a big shift you’re talking about when you’re focused on the satisfaction of another and you make it about, what do you want yourself. We talk a lot about on this podcast, great lovers, and they’re present and they can take risks and they’re vulnerable. So I think everybody wants to do that. How do you actually get yourself into a space of. Actually doing it is a whole different ballgame.

Colette Fehr [00:14:34]:
Yeah. And you’re right. And it’s not. Everybody obviously has the safety in their relationship, but I do think that more of it has come from within me and working on myself and developing myself, because I feel more confident inside and I’m more willing to take a risk as a result, even if I know it might not land lovely. And. Yeah, and my husband is sensitive, you know, as most people are, so I’m very open to feedback from him. But, you know, some of what we’ve gone through. He’s in his 60s, so there have been some phases of, you know, changes.

Colette Fehr [00:15:17]:
Erectile dysfunction, you know, I don’t think he’d mind me sharing that. That we’ve had to work through. And those things can be so challenging for your view of self as a man, as I’ve learned, where they didn’t bother me at all or limit my sexual satisfaction. I just see this as, you know, part of the deal, as we go through stages of life. Both of our bodies are changing. But I know those things have been hard on my husband and we’ve had to be able to talk about them openly.

Laurie Watson [00:15:51]:
That is so nice. It sounds like you guys have really worked it out in terms of all of these age related changes.

George Faller [00:15:59]:
All right, well, let’s come back and let’s go a little bit deeper into menopause.

Laurie Watson [00:16:07]:
Coca Cola for the big, for the small, the short and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers for the optimists, pessimists.

George Faller [00:16:20]:
For long distance love for introverts and.

Laurie Watson [00:16:24]:
Extroverts, the thinkers and the doers for old friends and new Coca Cola for everyone. Pick up some Coca Cola at a store near you.

George Faller [00:16:39]:
Oh, what fun. Holiday invites are arriving and Nordstrom has your party fits covered. You’ll find head to toe looks for every occasion, including styles under 100. Dresses, sets, heels, and accessories from Bardot, Princess Polly, Dolce Vita, naked wardrobe coach and more. Free styling help. Free shipping and quick order pickup make it easy in stores or online. It’s time to go shopping at Nordstrom.

George Faller [00:17:08]:
All right, so we’re talking a lot about menopause here. And as a guy, I don’t know much about it. You know, I know a little bit about what you’re saying for females. I’m even curious to do men experience a version of menopause? I know there’s some struggles with ED and things change, but is that like official term for men too?

Colette Fehr [00:17:27]:
Laurie, you speak to that? Because I don’t really know about that part, honestly.

Laurie Watson [00:17:32]:
Yeah, sometimes we kind of call it male pause, but it’s women. One of the difficulties with menopause is that our hormones drop precipitously. So very quickly our hormones drop. Whereas men, their hormones do drop, but it’s very slowly. So their testosterone is dropping, which of course impacts their desire and their ability with erections and all of that. But it’s so slow, it’s not quite as noticeable. One of the main things that happens with men and erectile dysfunction is really weight gain and cholesterol, High cholesterol and high triglycerides. Those are the problems that usually men in their 50s encounter.

Laurie Watson [00:18:16]:
And then they start having erectile dysfunction. So. So what shows up for them sexually is often more related to health problems, cardiovascular issues than it actually is. Male pause. But yeah, eventually, right? Men do have lowering of testosterone, but I mean, they still have so much of it. Most men still feel a lot of desire.

George Faller [00:18:39]:
When I, Colette, when Laurie first told me about this, I started A regimental ab workout. And I’ve been consistent ever since. I’m trying to keep my belly fat down. Yes, this is. This is important stuff. I don’t think a lot of men make that connection to, you know, the belly fat and erection. So that’s.

Laurie Watson [00:18:58]:
That’s a big one.

Colette Fehr [00:19:01]:
Well, and along those lines, the big thing that I’ve learned about menopause for women, and I guess men, too, now, as I’ve been informed, is muscle mass. That is so huge. I mean, I think that’s one of my biggest takeaways that. Well, there are a couple of foundational takeaways evaluating hormone replacement therapy, which I can speak to a little bit of what I learned about that, but also that women really need to focus on heavy lifting. What I learned is three times a week for 30 minutes even, is sufficient. But much heavier weights than we have historically thought would be helpful, because without the muscle mass, we don’t distribute the hormones that we have. We lose our metabolic rate. There’s so many things.

Colette Fehr [00:19:53]:
But it’s also for longevity. It’s not just about how we look and how healthy we are. That’s osteoporosis. So that’s a huge component. And it sounds like for men and women.

Laurie Watson [00:20:05]:
Yeah, both. Absolutely. Muscle mass is super important for longevity. And you’re right. We can lose it. And I think that aging is partly due to lack of exercise and lack of strength. Yeah. I know that I started lifting heavier weights probably five years ago, and, gosh, I’ve gone through, like, six months here that I have not been hitting the gym as hard as I need to.

Laurie Watson [00:20:31]:
That. That is a good reminder to go back. Really good.

George Faller [00:20:35]:
We’re not talking about shame on this episode. Right. We’re staying focused on menopause.

Laurie Watson [00:20:41]:
Okay. So. But menopause. Tell us a little about what you learn for hormone replacement.

George Faller [00:20:45]:
Yeah.

Colette Fehr [00:20:46]:
So that it’s a big. And this is really the key to turning it around and feeling good, because menopause is not a choice, but suffering is. And menopause can feel so much better. So so many women have. Their symptoms have been dismissed. They’ve been told they’re anxious. Right. People don’t even know.

Colette Fehr [00:21:08]:
Yeah. And a lot of times it is due to these hormonal changes. And hormone replacement therapy can be helpful. One of the women I listened to this week was an oncologist, a female oncologist who talked about the fact that. That it is really not accurate in most cases, that hormone replacement therapy increases the risk of cancer, that this is a big myth and lie that has kept a lot of women in unnecessary suffering. And actually, most women die of heart disease. Even women with cancer will more likely die of heart disease than the cancer. That’s how much heart disease is a killer of women.

Colette Fehr [00:21:51]:
And so hormone replacement therapy can actually improve heart conditions. And all of those things I talked about at the beginning with, like the cellular death and the mitochondrial dysfunction, hormone replacement therapy can help. So depending on where you are, you want to get an evaluation from your doctor and ask for particular blood tests to be done that assess where your estrogen, where your testosterone and your progesterone are, the levels, and then do your research. The other big thing is menopause literacy that we as women, where the medical establishment is now, we cannot rely on our doctors to tell us everything we need to know. We have to go out and read books such as the new menopause by Dr. Marie Claire Haver, to name one among many that really inform us about what the risks and benefits are particular to our situation. And then our doctor can be a facilitator through that process.

Laurie Watson [00:22:55]:
Yeah, and I think women got the idea that hormone replacement caused cancer because there was a study, the Women’s Health Initiative, that came out about 10, 15 years ago now, I was in practice at the time, and it basically indicated that, you know, the cancer risk was highly elevated. But we’ve reevaluated that study. We know that there were false parts to it in terms of the control groups. And so as they’ve reassessed that, you know, it is not what we thought. But I, I had an influx of clients who called saying, I don’t have any, you know, libido. I’m like, did you get off your hormones? They’re like, yep. So, I mean, hormones really do help our libido. I would also say I’m on hormone replacement and we don’t get any money for this.

Laurie Watson [00:23:42]:
So, you know, I would just say that, you know, when I’m not on hormone replacement, I feel like I have the flu. I mean, it, it is truly just quality of life on a day to day basis. I feel just crappy, you know, like, can’t move as well, you know, really, really feels bad. So I would say go to a qualified obgyn, go to your gyn, your gynecologist. I would not recommend a doc in the box that is doing hormones. Do somebody who has endocrine training, either endocrinologist or a gynecologist, because they really know a woman’s body. And so you need to get good help. You need to evaluate your own risk.

Laurie Watson [00:24:28]:
But yeah, the risks for cancer are not. Were exaggerated by that study, but it’s left a memory in everybody’s mind of, oh my God, if I take hormones, I’m going to get breast cancer. Which is not true.

Colette Fehr [00:24:39]:
Right. And fortunately, we’re changing that narrative now. And so much of what makes women feel bad and actually causes many of the diseases that happen later in life comes from the lack of estrogen because estrogen actually goes throughout the body and is so important for cellular health. So for example, too.

Laurie Watson [00:25:02]:
Right, right, yeah.

Colette Fehr [00:25:04]:
Right.

George Faller [00:25:04]:
Well, I want to circle. I want to circle back because I appreciated you talking about the psychosocial biological link. I mean, I think too much of this conversation is focused on estrogen and that’s hugely important. But then it turns it into a purely biological conversation.

Laurie Watson [00:25:19]:
Right.

George Faller [00:25:20]:
If you’re suffering with the biological changes, that’s going to emotional impact. Right. And if you’re going to hide that and withdraw and your partner doesn’t understand and it feeds a negative cycle. You’re not having sex. And like this thing really spills over into all different areas. So really recognize, and I love the narrative like it is about your story that you’re telling yourself and your partner, how can you kind of work together? Which is what we do all the time with cycles. Right. We’re seeing metaphors as a challenge like anything else, that two people, if they come together, they can find parts of themselves and each other that they’ve never found before.

George Faller [00:25:53]:
There’s such a beautiful opportunity if you’re looking for it. But if you’re just trying to survive this thing, you’re ashamed of it, you’re hiding it, then it’s definitely going to create distance.

Laurie Watson [00:26:01]:
Right.

George Faller [00:26:01]:
And divisiveness.

Colette Fehr [00:26:04]:
So beautifully said and so true. And this is why I feel it’s important to talk about erectile dysfunction and menopause and not cringe when we say these words. These are things that many people are dealing with for far long.

Laurie Watson [00:26:19]:
Everybody. Everybody. Almost every. Not maybe not. Right, Right. But everybody is going to deal with menopause if you’re in a partnership with a woman.

Colette Fehr [00:26:30]:
And I’ve had a woman. Right. And I’ve had so many couples over the years with much younger men who have ed. You know, it doesn’t have to mean that there’s absolutely no erection. Right. Just like erectile problems at times and feel so much shame about it. So I think it’s important to talk about and come together as a team and, you know, explain to one another this is what My body’s going through. And how can we work through this together?

George Faller [00:27:00]:
I have a last question from my end. Are you a sexual withdrawer or were a sexual withdrawal?

Colette Fehr [00:27:08]:
You know, I’m really not. I can be. I can have phases of time where I am. That bristle effect thing, where I know. Are you guys familiar with that? The bristle effect?

Laurie Watson [00:27:20]:
No, tell us.

Colette Fehr [00:27:21]:
So the bristle effect is. And I know you’ll know it once I say it, some therapists coined the term. But basically, when a male partner. Let’s just go heteronormative here for a second, because that’s my personal experience. When my male partner touches me to initiate affection, I immediately think, this is gonna be about sex. And let’s say I’m tired that night. Then I bristle because I. Maybe I’m not in the mood for sex.

Colette Fehr [00:27:49]:
But then, of course, my partner gets the message that I don’t want his touch at all. And he may not even have been thinking about sex in that moment. So you can see how that can create a lot of disconnection and become a pretty pervasive cycle. So I think I can be a withdrawer in that sense, that if I’m tired or, you know, as women, I think we’re so conditioned to believe touch is going to inevitably lead to sex. And this is another narrative that I’m working to change later in life. But otherwise, I’m a woman who really likes sex and wants to have sex. And maybe not every single day of the week like my partner would prefer, but more than many of my friends.

George Faller [00:28:37]:
Yeah, I asked that because I think a lot of sexual pursuers were talking about men in this situation. You know, when menopause happens and their sexually withdrawn partner retreats even more. Yeah, right. That’s the million dollar question they want to talk about. They want to be able to kind of read the books and, you know, but that’s the challenge. How do you, as a sexually withdrawn woman, face this task of standing up for yourself? You’re not doing this for your partner. That’s what you’re saying. Like, I need to do this for me.

George Faller [00:29:06]:
Right. Otherwise I’m going to lose myself even further in this process.

Laurie Watson [00:29:12]:
Yeah, I mean, it’s such a fear, I think, of men, George, that what they’ve heard out there is menopause is the end of sex. And so it’s so scary if they’re already the one who’s asking for it, initiating it, you know, wanting it more to have your partner go through this and they shut down even Further, I’d like to give a little bit of good news, though, right, that, you know, sexual desire in a sexual withdrawing woman is often about responsive desire. And, you know, so many things can help her. You know, I think one of the questions in a woman’s mind as she ages is, am I still desirable? And so many partners do think their partner is desirable. So being verbally reassuring about that is helpful. And I think arousal for women in menopause takes longer. That’s normal. So definitely use, you know, vaginal estrogen, which has, like, no systemic effects.

Laurie Watson [00:30:11]:
So if you’re having pain in menopause, unnecessary, get help. But lubricants really help. And I think kind of vibrators turn from being toys into tools. It’s really necessary to help arousal, you know, be more quicker. And I mean, I know it’s really tough with orgasm for some. Some women, you know, they can have painful contractions and loss of clitoral sensation and all that kind of stuff. But I think that with patience and time and using your brain and basically developing like, an erotic core, which I think is work. And I think if you are not in a partnership that feels secure, it’s hard to do that work.

Laurie Watson [00:30:51]:
But that’s what we’re doing on this podcast is helping couples become more secure. You know, it’s so worth it for your own kind of vibrancy in life and feeling that. And yes, I would say in menopause, I have had the best orgasms of my whole life. I mean, three times as powerful when I was young. And maybe that just talks about how bad we were in bed when I was young. You know, I don’t know. It could be that. But yeah, I think it’s possible to.

Laurie Watson [00:31:23]:
To have more as you lose inhibition and gain confidence and speak up for what you like and what you need and, you know, and the. The relationship becomes more secure. So, absolutely, there is some good news here.

George Faller [00:31:39]:
Kind of like the working out, Colette. Right? This is the psychological working out. If you’re going to invest in your own sexual erotic self, you know, you access a lot more. This is not just hormones. I think that forces a lot of women who are successful at this period, they develop that part of themselves that maybe they haven’t, and maybe that’s part of the key here.

Colette Fehr [00:32:00]:
I agree completely because I think that’s why I feel sexy and connected to my sensuality, is a lot of my connection to myself, self love, self acceptance and feeling alive, feeling connected to your own life force. As you said on our podcast, Lori, you Know, that really is a big part of it. And then some of these other pieces, like Dr. Kelly Casperson, who is a urologist who focuses on menopause and spoke at this conference I attended. Dr. Vonder writes women’s health conversations. It happens once a year here in Orlando, Florida, now. It used to be in other locations.

Colette Fehr [00:32:42]:
Yeah. And she Talked about that 64% of women experience a loss of libido, and 58% experience. Experience pain with sex. But that both of those things are fixable with hormone replacement. Yeah. And vaginal estrogen. And so we don’t have to be a prisoner of those medical factors. And then the rest, I think, comes from the joie de vivre, the joy of life, the connection to yourself and your partner.

Laurie Watson [00:33:12]:
Exactly. And you’ve got that in spades, Colette.

Colette Fehr [00:33:17]:
Well, thank you, Lori. I’m glad someone’s seeing that. Maybe you and my husband are the only ones, but that’s okay.

Laurie Watson [00:33:23]:
No, I definitely see that.

George Faller [00:33:25]:
I see it, too.

Colette Fehr [00:33:26]:
Thank you, George.

Laurie Watson [00:33:27]:
Thank you, George.

Colette Fehr [00:33:29]:
That’s okay. I mean, you know, what’s so most important is feeling it. And I think that is the message I want to leave for female listeners from this is this can be the most empowered, vital, vibrant stage of life. And that even though the body changes, that does not have to mean the end of our sex drive, our passion, and our vibrancy.

Laurie Watson [00:33:56]:
Yay. Love it. Thank you so much, Colette, for being with us. Tell us your podcast and where we can find it again.

Colette Fehr [00:34:03]:
Yes, my podcast is Insights from the Couch Mental Health at Midlife. I co host with Laura Bowman, who is an individual therapist and good friend. And the podcast is for women, but we have lots of male listeners, too, and we kind of tackle it all, you know, for mental health, physical health, career, everything women go through during this time, and our partners do.

Laurie Watson [00:34:26]:
If we have a book coming out next year on relationship communication, and we’ll have you back to promote your book. So thank you so much.

Colette Fehr [00:34:35]:
Thank you for having me.

George Faller [00:34:37]:
And, ladies, now you got to hit the gym and the erotic gym. Right. We got a lot of working out that needs to happen here.

Laurie Watson [00:34:46]:
Yep. We got to do that.

Colette Fehr [00:34:47]:
Okay.

Laurie Watson [00:34:47]:
I’m going to the gym today. Thanks for listening.

George Faller [00:34:51]:
Keep it hot, y’. All.

Laurie Watson [00:34:52]:
So some of you are interested in our work. We want to tell you where we.

George Faller [00:34:56]:
Are, what we’re doing in January 23rd to 25th. We’re coming to Nashville in person to do three days of really kind of breaking down this process. And again, I think this should be mandatory for all therapists to just kind of have more confidence in knowing what to do and work with the sexual cycle.

Laurie Watson [00:35:12]:
Yeah, we’ve already had lots of signups for that. By the way, George, people are also taking advantage of that Early Bird special. You know, we want supervisors to come. We’re giving half off to the supervisors. So please join us so that we can kind of get on the same page and understand and develop eft further. There’s going to be two days of lecture and exercises and then a day maybe with a live and you know, working on your tapes and your stuck places and we’re gonna go down to the Honky Tonk and have dinner together and have some fun.

George Faller [00:35:46]:
Have some fun.

Laurie Watson [00:35:47]:
Have some fun. Yeehaw.

George Faller [00:35:49]:
Yee haw. And for all you listeners, again, if you have a community and you want Laurie and I to come out and give a specialized training on sex and again, I think this is so important for anybody seeing couples, then, you know, reach out to us and let’s continue to spread this message. Yeehaw. Call in your questions to the four play question. Voicemail. Dial 833-MY-4 PLAY. That’s 833-MY-THE- NUMBER-OUR PLAY and we’ll use the questions for our mailbag episodes all content is for entertainment purposes only and should not be considered as a substitute for therapy by a licensed clinician or as medical advice from a doctor. This podcast is copyrighted by Foreplay Media.

Laurie Watson [00:36:29]:
When it comes to holiday gifting, I want to give things that people really love. Beautiful timeless pieces that they’ll wear for years. That’s why I’m going to Quince from their Mongolian cashmere sweaters which you know I love to the Italian wool coats and everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense. I am giving every son of mine one of their cashmere scarves and I’m giving my daughter in laws the cashmere sweaters. Different varieties. But I’m so so excited. And I am of course wearing cashmere sweaters for the holidays because I’m going to where it’s cold and I cannot wait. Quint has something for everyone.

Laurie Watson [00:37:07]:
Every piece is made with premium materials, with ethical trusted factories and price far below what other luxury brands charge. And their craftsmanship really shows in every detail. The stitching, the fit, the drape. It’s elevated, timeless and made to wear on repeat. Find gifts so good that you want to keep them with Quince. Go to quince.comforeplay for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada too. And that’s Q-U-I-N-C-E.com foreplay to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com foreplay Remember our code, ‘Foreplay’.