Joe Davis – Announcer [00:00:00]:
The following content is not suitable for children.

Laurie Watson [00:00:02]:
You know, as we face the new year and you’re making your resolutions and you want to change your relationship, here’s one episode for you to listen to that I really think can change things and can deepen you. So as you become self reflective before you set your course for the new year, we want you to think about this. George. We’re going to go deeper into the world of pursuers and withdrawers. I’m so excited to talk about waves, all the waves that hit us as we’re trying to do something good and it doesn’t work out, and we want to understand what happens to our partner and what happens to ourselves. Welcome to foreplay sex therapy.

Laurie Watson [00:00:46]:
I’m Dr. Laurie Watson, your sex therapist.

George Faller [00:00:48]:
And I’m George Faller, your couple’s therapist.

Laurie Watson [00:00:51]:
We are here to talk about sex.

George Faller [00:00:53]:
Our mission is to help couples talk about sex in ways that incorporate their body, their mind, and their hearts.

Laurie Watson [00:01:01]:
And we have a little bit of fun doing it. Right.

George Faller [00:01:02]:
G listen, and let’s change some relationships.

George Faller [00:01:06]:
So, Laurie, when we travel about so often, people want more than just an idea or the concepts, right. We want to have a felt sense of kind of what it’s like to be in our partner’s world or even to go deeper within our own world. So we talk a lot about pursuers and withdrawers, and today we’re going to do a little exercise just to help people go a little bit deeper. So let’s start off with pursuers.

Laurie Watson [00:01:31]:
Okay. Well, that’s easy, and that’s my favorite, so you can help.

George Faller [00:01:35]:
What’s so hard about pursuers, right, is this energy that they need to kind of create change and motivate their partner, and somehow they’re the ones responsible for conversations and bringing things up. They have all this kind of pressure put on them, and instead of them being appreciated, they get seen as they’re resented for their energy. I mean, what a kick of the ass, right?

Laurie Watson [00:01:58]:
Yeah. Sometimes I feel like as a pursuer, you just can’t win. You can just take it or you can say something, and if you say something, you’re damned. And if you don’t say something, you’re damned because there’s no change.

George Faller [00:02:11]:
There’s no change. Exactly. Right. And I think that’s the, they’re told if you work so hard and they work hard, like, they’re so creative in how they try to get engagement and get their partner to talk.

Laurie Watson [00:02:25]:
We overthink. We overthink.

George Faller [00:02:27]:
Overthink. And the intended hat is beautiful. Because you want connection. You want a strong relationship, so you’re willing to put the work in more than 50 50, and you think that your partner would be like, I’m so lucky to have this person who works so hard, and instead you get the exact opposite. Like, why are you working so hard? Why are you so negative? Why do you got to do all these things right? And it’s like, so many pursuers feel crazy. They’re like, what the hell is going on here?

Laurie Watson [00:02:53]:
Yeah, it is a crazy maker when you’re thinking, I’m thinking about us. I’m trying to figure it out for us. These are good things that I want. I just want more connection, or I want us to work better as a team, or sometimes I want more sex. That makes us feel so good. Like, how do you not get that?

George Faller [00:03:15]:
Yeah, not only not get it, that somehow I become the problem in a negative one. And it’s like, how did this turn back on me? So many pursuers feel like the monster or the bitch. That’s who they become, the negative one, the critical one in a relationship. And they don’t want to be this way. But like you were saying, what’s the alternative, to say nothing and just allow the distance to continue to grow? It’s a horrible dilemma.

Laurie Watson [00:03:39]:
Exactly. Okay, so what do you got for us?

George Faller [00:03:45]:
Well, they’re trying to just recognize. We talk about pursuers, this sense of rejection tends to be like their raw spot. They work so hard for connection and they get the very opposite of it all the time, which is rejection. And it’s not just rejection in the fight, before the fight ever happens, there’s like hundreds of times they hope their partner is going to bring something up. Why do they always have to bring it up? And every time your brain hopes and doesn’t get it, it’s getting rejected until you can’t take it anymore and you finally say something, then it turns into a fight. Then you have the post fight. Right? What’s going to happen after the fight? Why the pursuer has to bring it up and repair all the time. And I don’t think people recognize the number, the sheer number of resentments that pursuers accumulate over time.

George Faller [00:04:29]:
And that really starts to increase the baseline. It increases that anxiety, which is why they become more negative, because their brain is stuck in yellow and it’s focusing on what could happen instead of all the good stuff that could happen. And then they’re blamed for that, which is a pretty unfair thing.

Laurie Watson [00:04:45]:
Yeah, exactly. And this works in the sexual cycle and the emotional cycle.

Laurie Watson [00:04:51]:
Either place.

Laurie Watson [00:04:52]:
You’re a pursuer. That’s what you feel. It’s like, why is it left up to me to raise the topic of what is clearly not working?

George Faller [00:05:00]:
Yeah. And some of the. I think the loneliest moments is when you’re laying in bed with your partner, right. And you’re worrying about your relationship and the kids and are you going to make it, and what’s your mom going to think? And you’re up all night and your partner is sleeping. Right. They’re snoring. How lonely, existential can it feel when your brain is, like you said, it’s going a million miles an hour and your partner is oblivious to it? It looks like they’re oblivious to it.

Laurie Watson [00:05:27]:
Yeah. They might have gone to bed upset, but one of their defenses is to sleep easily. Right? I mean, it’s actually sleeping is a primitive defense. It’s like, I know for my husband, who’s withdraw when we’re in a fight, he can go to bed, he’s out in 30 seconds. He’s out faster. Because it’s the way he pulls inside. It doesn’t mean that he really wasn’t upset before he went to bed.

George Faller [00:05:53]:
There are so many pursuers emotionally during sex talk about, like, their partner is inside them or they’re inside their partner, and it doesn’t feel like their partner is actually present. It feels like they’re just during sex. Right. All that they’re feeling is not known, not seen, not interested in, not curious about. You can feel just the anguish of the loneliness in what should be such a connected moment.

Laurie Watson [00:06:19]:
Yeah. When we’re making love with our partner and we don’t sense that deep connection. There’s probably nothing lonelier in the whole world than that.

George Faller [00:06:28]:
Yeah. And in these moments, it’s so counterintuitive to want to talk about your worst fears. Because how do you make sense of constantly being rejected, right. It must be something about you. But why would you want to share that with the person who doesn’t seem to be interested? So again, there’s a lot of bad options here.

Laurie Watson [00:06:47]:
Yeah, so true. I’m feeling it.

George Faller [00:06:53]:
And usually this is where I’d want. Let’s do the waves. This is just an exercise that we do to help people embody more of this place and what it feels like. So all you listen is just close your eyes unless you’re driving.

Laurie Watson [00:07:07]:
Okay.

George Faller [00:07:08]:
That was a what you are, Joe, thrown in.

Laurie Watson [00:07:10]:
But.

George Faller [00:07:15]:
Here’S your first wave.

Laurie Watson [00:07:16]:
Okay.

George Faller [00:07:17]:
All right. All your efforts, all the books you read, all the way, you try to bring up conversations because these beautiful longings that you have, they just want to be in connection. You want interest, you want engagement. All the work is to get the good stuff. And not only do you not get the good stuff, but you get the very thing you’re trying to avoid. You’re rejected again. What is it like to work so hard not to be rejected, only to find yourself back in this place where loneliness is forced upon you? Just check in with your body. Where do you feel that rejection? I want connection, and I don’t get the connection.

George Faller [00:08:01]:
I’m back in the very place I don’t want to be. Is that a pit in your chest? Is it something in your. Just. Where do you feel that in your body?

Laurie Watson [00:08:09]:
Okay, so I’m going to play along, and I’m going to check my body as you do this, George.

George Faller [00:08:15]:
Good. All right, so here comes the second wave, right? The second wave is not only you being rejected, but your partner is telling you it is actually your fault you’re being rejected. It’s because you say too much, you’re too negative. Your timing is wrong. You have a big mouth. The reason for this rejection is you. What the hell does that feel like? To be blamed for the very rejection? You can see why so many pursuers feel crazy. They feel gaslit.

George Faller [00:08:47]:
They know their heart and what they’re trying to do, and yet to be broken down like it’s their fault they’re being rejected. Now it’s like. That is maddening. What does that feel like, to be blamed for the rejection?

Laurie Watson [00:08:58]:
Right. When we know our intention and then we’re told that we actually have a bad intention?

George Faller [00:09:07]:
Yes. What does that feel like, to be blamed for the very rejection? Here comes the third wave. Part of you believes that’s true despite all your efforts and all your work. Somehow this always happens to you. Somehow. People find it easy to walk away, to not be with you the way you want to be with them. What is it like to believe you actually deserve the rejection? I just feel the difference between I’m rejected, I’m being blamed for the rejection, and part of me thinks I deserve it. I’m too much.

George Faller [00:09:44]:
I’m not enough. I’m not smart enough, pretty enough, slim enough, whatever. The tapes that play in the displace. What’s that feel like, to believe you deserve the rejection?

Laurie Watson [00:09:57]:
Right.

George Faller [00:09:59]:
Here comes your fourth wave. If you ever needed anybody to come, now would be a good time. This is where you are feeling the most unlovable, the most broken. And guess what? No one is coming. If you ever needed love, this is it. And no one’s coming. What is it like to feel that? To know in your moment of greatest need where you’re feeling hopeless, despair, helplessness, that no one’s coming, no one’s going to help you? You are on your own in this place. To me, this is hell, right? Cut off from relationship and not liking yourself in it.

George Faller [00:10:45]:
I mean, this is despair. Here comes your last wave. The only thing that you can do to get out of this place, the only resilient thing, is to fight, to say, this isn’t fair, this is not okay. And you’re going to try to get people to respond differently. You have one move, one resilient thing to do and say, no more. This isn’t okay. I deserve something different. And the one move that you have, people are going to blame you for it.

George Faller [00:11:15]:
They’re not going to say, it’s great that you do this. They’re going to say, there you go, doing it again. Being negative, pushing, giving advice, being critical. Your one move and people are going to reject that. What does that feel like?

Laurie Watson [00:11:30]:
Helpless. Gosh, talk about a cycle.

George Faller [00:11:36]:
How’s that for you, Laurie? Just getting hit with the.

Laurie Watson [00:11:41]:
I mean, I think what you said is you’ve broken down the process. So much of what goes on inside a pursuer, I can feel it. The push is, what is it you’re feeling? I think typically I feel things kind of back of my chest and in my stomach. Just that, oof. I know what it’s like to be rejected.

George Faller [00:12:08]:
Yeah.

Laurie Watson [00:12:10]:
That’s where it lands in my body, which we know. We’re trying to get people to connect their emotions in their body because it’s so smart, then we can know faster what to do. If we check in with our bodies.

George Faller [00:12:25]:
I’m sure there are people listening that are crying. I mean, there’s something exposing about this place that how do we make sense of the rejection when we start to go until we deserve it, there’s something wrong with us. I mean, these are the horrible moments that usually nobody sees, nobody comes, right? So just to be able to recognize if you can listen to those places, they’re telling us what we need. You deserve to be responded to in these places. Sometimes we have to be willing to touch these places ourselves. Or even if you’re a withdrawal, listening, like, you might not know where your partner goes because you don’t ask questions. Or they might not talk about the vulnerability here. But it’s hard to make sense of continuous rejections over a relationship.

George Faller [00:13:15]:
Right? And again, if you feel empathy, you feel sad. That sadness is just trying to point you in a direction of connection, which is the missing ingredient here.

Laurie Watson [00:13:27]:
Exactly. So what is the direction it’s trying to point me in? What’s the sadness?

George Faller [00:13:33]:
Yeah. It’s trying to get you to not be alone in these places. It’s trying to get the people you.

Laurie Watson [00:13:39]:
Love to come closer. Yeah. The need underneath the feeling.

George Faller [00:13:45]:
What’s the opposite of rejection?

Laurie Watson [00:13:47]:
Acceptance. Loved.

George Faller [00:13:53]:
Beautiful. Exactly. All right, well, there’s a little jumping deep end of pursuers. Let’s come back and do withdrawals.

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Laurie Watson [00:16:50]:
So, gee, I mean, that is so distinct. The waves of what we go through. I think that pattern resonates in my body, it resonates in my head with, absolutely, I’m rejected. And then I’m blamed for the action that caused me to be rejected. And then I tell myself, maybe I deserve this. And I’m all alone in that place. Nobody sees that, right? When I need it, nobody sees it. And what does it cause me to do? It’s my one act, is to fight to go again.

Laurie Watson [00:17:23]:
And then I’m just repeating the cycle. And I think you’re asking me to find that underneath that need of being so alone. What’s the opposite of what I really need? And how do I ask my partner for that? Can you help me? If I go through waves and I do the work of figuring out what’s underneath it and what I need, what am I going to do with this?

George Faller [00:17:47]:
Yeah, I mean, these are the conversations couples need to, because normally your partner is just going to see the protection of those places, the anger and the criticism, not see the vulnerability to be able to say, hey, I’m not sure you know that when you walk away for whatever your good reasons, I not only feel kind of alone, but I start to wonder, is there something wrong with me? Do I deserve to be left alone? Can you help me in that place? I mean, that is the place where we need help. The most. And no one ever usually asks for help. We just try to change our partner from not triggering that place. Instead of saying, it’s here again, can you help me with it? That’s the need to be able to say, hey, when you come back, can you let me know? Can you reassure me that you do want me, that you do choose me? That’s the need that’s going to kind of heal this place. That’s what’s going to pull the person out of the water and bring out party Laurie. Right. That feels safer and more secure.

Laurie Watson [00:18:44]:
Vacation Laurie. Yeah. Okay, good. Yeah, do this again, but like with the withdrawals, because I’m imagining kind of not just rejection, but the not good enough stuff that withdrawers go.

George Faller [00:18:59]:
I mean, I think we want to start off with just honoring. Just like pursuers have good reasons why they push and poke, withdrawers have good reasons why they go away. Right. It’s safer to go away. It avoids conflict, there’s more control. They can problem solve better. They get away from the conflict. So they have this move that they’ve used their whole life, which isn’t trying to reject their partner, it’s just what they do to feel safe.

George Faller [00:19:24]:
I think what a lot of people don’t recognize is every fight is a failure in co regulation. Every fight is teaching their nervous systems don’t do emotions. This is what happens when you try to talk about things in an emotional way. It makes things worse. And every time they go away and they try to self soothe, they gain confidence in going away because it helps them self soothe. They don’t learn how to get soothed in relationships. So I think just most pursuers have to recognize the math, just how many encounters withdrawers have gotten where emotions don’t work so well for them. Right.

George Faller [00:20:01]:
And that’s why they go away. It has nothing to do with not caring, it just has everything to do with safety.

Laurie Watson [00:20:06]:
Yeah.

George Faller [00:20:08]:
It’s a counterintuitive thing.

Laurie Watson [00:20:10]:
It is counterintuitive. It’s so hard to see it when you’re on the other side of the fence.

George Faller [00:20:16]:
Exactly.

Laurie Watson [00:20:16]:
And your partner is walking away to remember, okay, they’re doing something to connect inside, to figure it out inside, to regulate themselves. They don’t know this language of co regulation. They don’t know how to do that.

George Faller [00:20:32]:
Yeah. And they wind up describing relationships like a minefield. It’s like, I don’t know when the next thing I’m going to do is going to be wrong. And that’s a hard, like, where would you rather be at work? Where it’s not a minefield. And the rules of engagement are clear. And you know what’s expected of you or at home, where you don’t know what you’re going to do. And the worst thing isn’t the mind exploding or the fight. It’s not knowing when it’s going to happen.

George Faller [00:20:58]:
That’s why so many withdrawals feel tired in relationships, because they’re vigilant. They’re constantly scanning for threat. Like, did I say the right thing? Was that okay? Do I need to change what I’m saying? Imagine what it’s like to live with that pressure in relationships. And every time they get away, they get a relief from that pressure. And that’s what they’re trying to get away from, the pressure. They’re not trying to get away from their partner.

Laurie Watson [00:21:24]:
I have a little story. I was working with somebody who was a huge withdrawer, and they were telling me the story of what happened, an incident with their partner. And to me, I already know the partner is going to explode, and I know why the partner is going to explode. And I know what the partner is feeling. And even in the telling of the story, I could see that the withdrawal was building up to. Can you believe the reaction I got? Wanting me to get to the punchline of like, what a bitch. And I already see both sides. I know why he’s acting the way he’s acting.

Laurie Watson [00:22:05]:
To me. It isn’t random. It’s part and parcel. It’s so intrinsic to their cycle. And it’s curious to me that it feels so random. But to me, as a therapist, I’m watching it and it’s like, of course I know why your partner is being triggered. I see the whole thing. It’s like having.

Laurie Watson [00:22:29]:
Reading a book and there’s a third party narrator and you see all the behind the scenes. And that’s kind of what it’s like when we’re standing apart from our cycle or when we’re standing apart from somebody else’s cycle. It’s easy to see both sides. But I think when we’re in the middle of it, harder to see it.

George Faller [00:22:47]:
Yeah, it’s pretty unfortunate. And the rules that they’re given is that if you perform well, you’re going to be successful. At an early age, they learn to kind of go inward, right. From a failure of co regulation. When people don’t respond to our feelings, we learn to deal with them on our own. And they become good at self regulating. And the world rewards that and promotes them. And they make a lot of money because they can stay calm under pressure and not do these big feelings, and that feels good.

George Faller [00:23:17]:
Then they find themselves in relationships where they’re told there’s something wrong with them because they’re not doing feelings when this is just kind of the map that they were given, right? Just to help people recognize that the love that they get is so conditional. Like, they get love when they get things right and perform, and then when they don’t, they get it wrong. They go off and they deal with it on their own. It’s not that their partner doesn’t want to help them. This was what they learned to do. But what is it like to only receive love when you get it right? No wonder why they’re sensitive to messages of failure. Because failure means they’re going off alone to kind of deal with it.

Laurie Watson [00:23:54]:
Exactly. Yeah. And just what you were saying, I mean, this partner had, the person I was talking to had had this big emotional experience, and it was really good, but it was also something new and different and overwhelming. And so they needed to kind of regulate that. It was just like, I don’t know what to do with even these good, positive emotions that I’m getting. This love that I’m getting, it’s so different. And so they needed to kind of pull in and intellectualize it. And even the intellectualization I could hear was actually about a vulnerability in their past, sort of.

Laurie Watson [00:24:34]:
I could hear that side of it. But of course, when they tell their partner about the more intellectual understanding of it, what’s lost is the power of what they felt emotionally. And I knew that was going to trigger their partner. What, you just had this big thing happen and just instilled hopelessness in the partner, because it’s like no matter what, you’re not going to be able to take love in. No matter what happens, all the good, you won’t be able to take love in. And if you can’t take love in, you can’t take my love in. And boom, big trigger.

George Faller [00:25:08]:
So we’re trying to really capture the moment right before they go away. When you understand attachment like this is their moment of greatest need, something is happening with them. What’s the threat that causes them to go away? So let’s do the waves with that. So again, we have our listeners, we’re going to hit you again with five waves.

Laurie Watson [00:25:27]:
Okay? And now I’m kind of in the brain. I’m in the brain of the withdrawal, having thought of this example.

George Faller [00:25:32]:
So here comes your first wave. All your attempts to perform, to make your partner happy, to achieve to get it right. All that work fails. You get the very message that you’re trying to not get. You failed again. What is it like to get this message that all your work is trying not to get? You faller again. Just notice your body, what it feels like to get a message that you’re working so hard not to get. Where do you feel that failure? Your stomach, your chest.

George Faller [00:26:10]:
Just listen to your body, because it will communicate where this feeling comes. Here comes the second wave. Not only have you failed, but your partner is telling you the reason why you failed is because you don’t care. You’re not trying hard enough. What does that feel like? You know your heart. You know how important it is for you not to fail. You do everything not to fail. And your partner says, actually, you don’t try hard enough.

George Faller [00:26:40]:
No wonder why it’s confusing for so many withdrawals. They don’t understand where this comes from. They don’t care. Like, how is this even possible? Here comes the third wave. Not only have you been told, you faller, and it’s your fault because you don’t care, but part of you believes it must be true. You must be a failure. This keeps happening. You can’t deny your history, where despite your efforts, you let people down constantly.

George Faller [00:27:12]:
They’re constantly telling you you need to change. You’re coming up short. Part of you believes it must be true. Then you are a failure. What does that feel like, to have this part of you that believes your truth is you are a failure. And I need everyone to get the difference between I’m failing at something and I’m a failure. This is the worst fear. This is that negative view of self that makes sense of this space, that I must be a failure.

Laurie Watson [00:27:44]:
I am the one that is bad. I am the failure.

George Faller [00:27:49]:
This is where shame is going to kick in. I’m a loser. I’m stupid. I’m too much. I’m fat. All that negative stuff. This is where it’s coming, right? Here comes your fourth wave. If you ever needed love, this would be a good time for it to show up.

George Faller [00:28:07]:
And guess what? No one is showing up here. If you can get it right, maybe someone will show up and love you. But in this place where you need love the most, no one is coming. Can you feel the hopelessness and despair in that? Just to know, to resign yourself, that this is it? This is what life has for you. When you go to this place, no one shows up. This is a desert. This is dark. This is where people feel hopelessness and despair and helplessness and all that stuff.

George Faller [00:28:42]:
Here comes your last wave. You have one thing to do, one move to get out of this place, and that’s just to kind of push it into a closet, push it into a corner, and just focus on something else. Go somewhere else, avoid it. You have one move to get away from the pain because no one’s coming. And guess what? Instead of people saying, that’s amazing, thank God you can do this, you are going to get blamed when you do this and you push this stuff away. What’s it like to have one move and everybody’s going to hate the one move that you have?

Laurie Watson [00:29:18]:
Pretty hopeless.

George Faller [00:29:20]:
Yeah. Again, see Laurie shaking her head. Hopefully some of you listening can feel the pain of this place. There’s actually a lot going on inside withdrawers that they might not know how to put into words, but hopefully that’s what we’re trying to do, help people find their words so they don’t have to be alone in these places, because it’s that darkness that’s telling us the needs. If my worst fear is failure, then I need somebody to come and say it’s going to be okay. Even if you fail, I still want you. I still love you, like reassurance, a hug, like some kind of connection. In this place where I chronically get nothing.

George Faller [00:29:58]:
I need co regulation. I need success in that if I’m going to want to do more emotions.

Laurie Watson [00:30:03]:
Yeah. And I just think with withdrawers, oftentimes, the way they grew up, they don’t verbalize so much. So then in relationship, when you ask them what’s going on and they say, I don’t know, they feel something, but they can’t put it into words. So they say, I don’t know. And this part, I mean, what you just described is so deep, how do you put into words? How is it even safe to put in the words that I feel like I am the failure, I am the failure. And that hopelessness that is generated, there is kind of no place to go. And then withdrawing further makes sense because sometimes I think they just don’t have that path even of putting it out there so that their partner can understand what’s going on. And I think the next step, what you talked about with pursuers, is much easier for pursuers to maybe ask their partner to see what’s going on, but for the withdrawal, you’re really asking for a mountain task here, George.

Laurie Watson [00:31:10]:
So how does the withdraw put it into words so that they can let their partner into this place when they don’t have many words?

George Faller [00:31:19]:
It’s a process, just like you got here over time. It’s a process to start touching this place, building your capacity to share it. Right. The good news is, if you can just listen to your body that says, this hurts, it feels bad. That feeling is trying to propel you towards sharing it, towards communicating, towards not being alone. Let’s not overcomplicate this. The antidote to failure is to be wanted. It’s success with your feelings, even if you are a withdrawal.

George Faller [00:31:51]:
And say, I don’t even know how to talk to this. What George and Laurie just talked about hits me. I don’t often talk about this place, but I just want you to listen to this with me and see what comes up. It’s the start of the process. If you’re the pursuit, just recognize they have to have success with emotion, they have to have success with co regulation. Don’t keep correcting them. Say, well, tell me more. They might not have more words, but if they keep touching this place and they find your interest, your curiosity, more importantly your empathy and your compassion, they will do more of it.

George Faller [00:32:24]:
That’s the good news here. When withdrawers start to fight for themselves in these places, the world changes. They start to see the value in doing co regulation instead of just constantly resigning themselves. That the best they get is to just be left alone. That’s not okay. We’re trying to fight for withdrawals to let them know there’s an alternative out there. Don’t listen to us, listen to your body. When you try it, we’ll have to do your body.

Laurie Watson [00:32:51]:
Okay, we got a lot of here. So give me one line that a withdrawal might say to their partner about this deep feeling of, I am the failure. I am a failure.

George Faller [00:33:05]:
You’re in that moment right before I go away. I’m really down on myself because I feel like not only am I disappointing you, but I’m disappointing myself because I just always wind up hurting the people I love.

Laurie Watson [00:33:24]:
So vulnerable. So vulnerable. Thank you. Okay, y’all, whichever position you’re in, pursuer, withdraw. We feel with know there are five waves that come and this is a difficult place to get out of. I think George has offered today a way know this is something to reflect on as you’re going into your new year. Just a way to deepen, a way to think about what you go through and a way out. So we offer you blessings in the new year and this is a pathway for you to understand yourself a little bit better and maybe you can see what your partner goes through too.

Laurie Watson [00:34:03]:
Thanks for listening.

George Faller [00:34:04]:
Swimming away, baby.

Laurie Watson [00:34:06]:
Okay, so tell us about your cutting edge training that you’re doing on success and vulnerability, Laurie.

George Faller [00:34:12]:
We just keep pushing it. Coming up with a new module on the playbook of a pursuer, playbook of a witch, or really practical moment by moment moves of what a therapist can use. We’re so focused on what’s happening in session enough. There’s talk about theories and these global things I think most therapists are looking for. What do I do in this moment? Give me a tool, George. So that’s what we’re trying to do.

Laurie Watson [00:34:38]:
That’s awesome. I am so glad you guys are doing this work. I think it helps us be organized to see you do it. You do demos, you do explanations, teaching. It really is interactive, and I think that so many trainings that we sit through don’t give us an opportunity for that. So what you’re doing is really important.

George Faller [00:34:57]:
No.

George Faller [00:34:58]:
We try to emphasize the teach it, show it, do it model of learning. You need to have some ideas, so we try to teach those, and then we try to show what it looks like implementing those ideas. But most importantly, you now got to practice it. That’s how they become yours, and that’s what we want our listeners and watchers to do and become their own moves.

Laurie Watson [00:35:16]:
Find George and his [email protected] call in.

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